River Class (OPV) (RN)

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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(NavyLookout/Portsmouth Proud) 20th December 2019
Today HMS Clyde returned to Portsmouth where she was built, flying her paying off pennant. She sailed from the UK in August 2008 and has been in the South Atlantic ever since. She has now been relieved by HMS Forth.

(PortsHistDockyard) 20th December 2019
We have another homecoming, just in time for Christmas! Today we welcome back HMS Clyde, a River-class vessel, who has been monitoring the territorial seas and airspace surrounding the Falkland Islands for the past 12 years.

She returns to Portsmouth today having been replaced by HMS Forth.


(wowmedialtd) 25th June 2008
HMS Clyde was the last ship to be fully built in Portsmouth.


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Jensy
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Jensy »

SKB wrote:HMS Clyde was the last ship to be fully built in Portsmouth.
Might be wrong but weren't the Khareef/Al-Shamikh class built after they had finished the River class? Or were they partially constructed up on the Clyde?

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Definitely last RN ship... :twisted:

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

HMS Forth heading south. Leaving CapeVerde, she has another half of her trip to Falklands island.

Meanwhile, FIGS is gapped from late October (*1) for about two months (but no one cares, looks like. If Argentina did not care, it is no problem :D ).

*1: https://www.ics-uk.org/news/goodbye-to-hms-clyde

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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abc123
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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SKB wrote:
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I really think it's a waste of resources to shadow a school ship like Smolny.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

andrew98
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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A 7k+ military vessel, with 4x 76mm guns, radar, sonar and electronic warfare suite...
Yeah no need to escort it...
In fact good practice for RN and actually a good use for an OPV, showing we're aware and paying attention, but not escalating for no reason.
If we had a vessel like that in or near Russian waters they would sure as hell shadow it / protest it diplomatically.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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andrew98 wrote:A 7k+ military vessel, with 4x 76mm guns, radar, sonar and electronic warfare suite...
.
Yeah, absolutely horrible. If this is 1550, not 2019. :think:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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It is all good training to put to sea in short time and escort a ship in one of the worlds choke points even more so when as you put it it is a school ship. Also remember that most Russian war ships going through the channel do so with there AIS turned off and the role of the RN is to keep other shipping safe

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

It has been continuously confirmed Brazil not going get her from months ago.

Who is pushing to say they will, even denied so many times? May be Brazilian side?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Weren't Bangladesh also rumoured to be interested in acquiring her?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Pongoglo »

Don't really understand why we don't want to keep her given the fact that we appear to have found plenty of work for the other three to do, with the B2' s that would give us nine , enough to do all the post Brexit EEZ type duties and some of the forward presence stuff as well, at least until T31 comes online?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Phil Sayers »

I'm not convinced there is any need to up gun the River Class in general but retaining HMS Clyde, modernising her by adding some of the B2 features and increasing her armament would provide a good opportunity to use her as a trials ship for that. Given that Argentina is acquiring 4 x OPVs with 30 mm guns I think a sensible case can be made for keeping HMS Clyde and equipping her with a 57 mm gun.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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HMS Clyde already has Scanter 4100 radar , flight deck , 2 ribs and a 30mm cannon the same as the Batch 2's . for me leave the B1/1.5 alone and fit 57mm and maybe 30mm with LLM to the B2's this should cover them for anything in the low to low mid ops range

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Do anyone know to where HMS Medway, 2nd-hull of Batch-2 River OPV, will be forward deployed?

- Caribbean option: where will be the home port? Bermuda?
- Persian Gulf option: at Bahrain?
- Singapore option: at the RN jetty?(*1)

*1: By the way, Today in google map, HMS Albion is berthed in Singapore Sembawang wharf. Just for fun.



[EDIT] From "".
All four River B1/1.5 in Portsmouth. Impressive, it is.
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jedibeeftrix
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by jedibeeftrix »

Carib doesn't seem like any kind of a priority, unless its because they want to free up RFA assets from having to be on standby for hurricane season due to perceived demand elsewhere.

S'pore feels a little early for a permanent basing.

To my inexpert eyes, the demand, the support facilities, and the focus all point to the Gulf...

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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There was talk of Medway going to Caribbean some time ago but for that to work she will need a UAV . And if it is to be the Gulf then she will need to be up gunned in some form and for me that would mean 57mm and 2 x 30mm with LMM . She could paddle around the Indo- Pacific flying the flag until replaced by a Type 31 with little work but it is a little underwhelming for globe Britain

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SW1 »

Gibraltar? For operating in security along west Africa perhaps or the Caribbean both areas of importance to the UK and seeing a increase in non state belligerents.

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Like a modern AP-S I like your thinking could also use St Helena

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by jedibeeftrix »

Tempest414 wrote:if it is to be the Gulf then she will need to be up gunned in some form and for me that would mean 57mm and 2 x 30mm with LMMn
would it be a valuable convoy excort in the gulf acting in tandem with a T23-GP?
they have been built to a more 'warshippy' level of damage control than the B1 rivers...

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

jedibeeftrix wrote:Carib doesn't seem like any kind of a priority, unless its because they want to free up RFA assets from having to be on standby for hurricane season due to perceived demand elsewhere....
To my inexpert eyes, the demand, the support facilities, and the focus all point to the Gulf...
Persian Gulf is likely, I agree. What kind of tasking she will take is very interesting. There are many demands there, not only for escort.

But, I'm also not surprised if it is Caribbean. A 36-crew River B2 replacing 100+ crew Tide/Wave in non-hurricane season will greatly relax the man-power pressure, although surely a small reduction in capability.
SW1 wrote:Gibraltar?
Interesting idea.
Tempest414 wrote:Like a modern AP-S I like your thinking could also use St Helena
But, I'm afraid St Helena has no usable port?
Tempest414 wrote:There was talk of Medway going to Caribbean some time ago but for that to work she will need a UAV . And if it is to be the Gulf then she will need to be up gunned in some form and for me that would mean 57mm and 2 x 30mm with LMM . She could paddle around the Indo- Pacific flying the flag until replaced by a Type 31 with little work but it is a little underwhelming for globe Britain
Heavy armaments for River B2 when deployed to Persian Gulf is a funny topic to discuss, but
- "as is", River B2 can do work there. Even USCG cutters were there, no problem for River B2. There are diversity of tasks, and very lightly armed OPV can easily find her place.
- even if up-gunning, replacing the aft-crane with a 20mm CIWS (e.g. STRN web) + adding LMM on its 30 mm turret is "the most", I suspect, because they are very cheap, and can be easily reverted later (say, transferred to T31).

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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donald_of_tokyo wrote:But, I'm afraid St Helena has no usable port?
A River class could use Rupert's wharf as dose MV Helena

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

donald_of_tokyo, I agree options to add heavy armaments to the River class continues to be an endless debate, though in my view has increased interest recently given the discussion on global deployments and also (IMO) the very clear noise coming from HMG to make better use of what the RN already has before asking for more.

At the end of the day, it comes back to what we are asking the B2 Rivers to do. Low level global presence, surveillance, training, policing and diplomacy plus BOT EEZ patrolling are valid roles, but none of which warrant new kit.

The talk of the Med, Gulf and Singapore however suggest one or more of the roles below are being considered:
- FONOPS: Enforcing Freedom of Navigation in areas like the South China Sea, but also in areas like the Black Sea and other critical choke points.
- Convoy escort: acting as part of a convoy escort group through higher threat waters.
- Future Commando Platform: Operating a troop level of RMs for force protection and limited ground security operations.

I’d argue that each would require a higher level of self defence capability along the lines being discussed (though personally I’d say adding a 57mm plus a port & starboard 30mm with LMM, would be a good mix).

However the rest would be off board systems such as a couple of ASV P950 Autonomous Ribs, additional davits for two larger craft (like a CB90) plus vertical UAV capability (like Camcopter). For a fairly modest investment this would give a significant uplift to make the B2s adequately strong platforms for the roles being discussed.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Repulse wrote:I’d argue that each would require a higher level of self defence capability along the lines being discussed (though personally I’d say adding a 57mm plus a port & starboard 30mm with LMM, would be a good mix).

However the rest would be off board systems such as a couple of ASV P950 Autonomous Ribs, additional davits for two larger craft (like a CB90) plus vertical UAV capability (like Camcopter). For a fairly modest investment this would give a significant uplift to make the B2s adequately strong platforms for the roles being discussed.
Plus radar upgrade to replace the current 2d set plus at least one EO tracker for the extra 30mm and possibly a targeting radar for the 57. Plus ESM, ECM and soft kill. This is all going to add to the crew size at a time of crew shortages. You’re going to need to find space for a larger ops room with more consoles. You’re going to need extra magazine spaces. You’re adding to the power requirements. You’re going to need extra ballistic protection. All of this is adding weight which will impact on the ship’s trim and negatively impact on performance. Then other stuff I’ve not thought about.

It’s all doable if you make it a priority. But please don’t pretend it will be modest either in capital or operational terms.

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