River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Which is why I have said that the B2 Rivers are all that we will have, until then! :mrgreen:

dmereifield
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by dmereifield »

Scimitar54 wrote:When the B1’s are retired, the B2’s will be brought home. The T31’s will replace the forward deployed B2’s and they are likely to acquire a bespoke weapons fit to suit their deployment and operational location. Second batch of T31 to be not less than 5 (with enhanced weapons fit), unless there is also to be a third batch. The B2 Rivers are all that we have to fulfil the Forward based roles until then. They may well acquire the odd extra bit of kit as a consequence. :mrgreen:
10 T31 and 8 T26 (and 6 T45)? Spunds optimistic

Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

But still insufficient! :mrgreen:

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by dmereifield »

Scimitar54 wrote:But still insufficient! :mrgreen:
Greedy boy

Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

If you only ask for what you think you might (at best) be given, you will NEVER get what you actually need! :mrgreen:

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard.

The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and let the Navy focus on its core activities.
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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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shark bait wrote:Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard.

The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and let the Navy focus on its core activities.
I certainly think fishery protection is a complete anachronism. The RN shouldn't be measuring nets.

The main issue for me would be whether they are fishing (no pun intended) in the same recruitment pool as the navy.

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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They have bigger fish to fry
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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HMS Forth, at SanCarlos Bay.
Image

Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

shark bait wrote:Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard.

The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and l
Why spend more money creating yet another department, when Fisheries is only part of their role, which includes surveillance, training and acting as the FRE.
RichardIC wrote:I certainly think fishery protection is a complete anachronism. The RN shouldn't be measuring nets.
I think tensions over “fish” are going to be increasing and a role where the RN is able to handle any flash points much better than a small civilian department.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Warships will be better able to handle any other “Fishy” activities that they may accidentally discover whilst carrying out their Fisheries Protection Role. e,g. Gun Running, People Trafficking and Smuggling. :mrgreen:

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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by RichardIC »

Repulse wrote:I think tensions over “fish” are going to be increasing and a role where the RN is able to handle any flash points much better than a small civilian department.
It's a law enforcement matter. It doesn't need military involvement.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

If you really believe that, then by the same definition, why have QRA for incursions into UK air space, or an Army to defend against invasion. A raid on UK fish stocks IS an attack on the assets of this country and individuals who commit such offences (with or without political support from a foreign power) are highly likely to be committing other offences as well. Or perhaps you think that unarmed policemen still deter armed robbers as well. Get real! :mrgreen:

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Repulse wrote:Why spend more money creating yet another department
Because the Navy is already in a shit state, and it does not need more problems caused by a new Brexit border. They should outsource all the law enforcement stuff to someone else.

This like the RAF outsourcing search and rescue, it's not a core activity, so get rid and focus on what matters.
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Ebro
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ebro »

You are aware that MaaF actually pay for this service?
These ships give a shed load of sea time and excellent opportunities for Sailors and Officers to learn.
Yes they will be busier with no deal. However so will the small numbers of boarder force cutters and you don’t see the Home Office rushing to buy more.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

shark bait wrote:They should outsource all the law enforcement stuff to someone else.
With the work goes the funding
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Maybe, and they get a streamlined organisation. Struggling organisations need to focus on what matters most, not counting fish.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

shark bait wrote:Maybe, and they get a streamlined organisation. Struggling organisations need to focus on what matters most, not counting fish.
Ok, the RN loses 3-4 OPVs and 200 personnel, what else do you expect to happen?
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

They wouldn't loose any personnel, and they can get those laid up ships back to sea, plus other efficiency benefits thanks to a streamlined structure.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

shark bait wrote:they can get those laid up ships back to sea
Out of interest (as we are not talking any of those with the RFA), how many of those are not either in the queu for power "upgrades" or T23 LIFEX?
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Jake1992
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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shark bait wrote:They wouldn't loose any personnel, and they can get those laid up ships back to sea, plus other efficiency benefits thanks to a streamlined structure.
That’s all well and good but normally the RN OPVs are only called when armed vessels and personal are deemed to be needed, so in the this new set up what takes there place ?

There’s also the question of what becomes the new FRE ? Most of this time now days this is done by the OPVs, will we really keep a T31 at least in the EEZ just for that role ?

Then what happens to the training progression that the OPVs are used for ?

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Use a coastguard vessel.

This is the whole point, the RN do not have to do all that, they can streamline their operations considerably and focus on the unique value streams.
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Jake1992
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Jake1992 »

shark bait wrote:Use a coastguard vessel.

This is the whole point, the RN do not have to do all that, they can streamline their operations considerably and focus on the unique value streams.
At the moment we don’t have the vessels to form an adequate coast guard so would need funding, also as pointed out if the RN work the role they lose the funding.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SW1 »

Surely it’s the role of the RN to maintain the security and integrity of UK territorial waters from all forms of illegal activity, just like they do in overseas UK territories of the Falklands and Caribbean using a similar vessel type.

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

There's enough vessels for a coastguard. The Navy and border force both have 9 patrol boats, plus the other agencies contributing to British maritime security.

Yes it's currently the UK is the role of the Navy, but in Germany and America domestic maritime security of the job the coastguard. This enables the navy to focus on their highest value tasks. The Brits would benefit from a similar system, allowing the RN to focus it's core roles and using them to protect British interests globally.

The Royal Navy is a finite and very expensive resource, so use it where it has the biggest effect.
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