UK Defence Forum

Ron5 wrote:Except ExLs doesn't fit ESSM so that will always be filled with CAMM.

(in answer to calculus)

ExLS at present is a pure Sea Ceptor launch system. Some graphics showing other load outs are so dated they actually include NLOS...the most recent include RAM Blk.2, Nulka and Hellfire/JAGM. But none have been trialled or funded. Which I have to say is a surprise. Hellfire/JAGM in its only VL incarnation to date on LCS is a different, much simpler launcher, Nulka - why would you waste a VL tube when you can have one of the easy to site dedicated launchers elsewhere at a lower cost? And RAM Blk.2 has 2 different, standalone launchers available including self contained SeaRAM so why bother?

It looks like MBDA have got a dedicated launcher with lots of potential developed for free by accident...

calculus wrote:

Ron5 wrote:Except ExLs doesn't fit ESSM so that will always be filled with CAMM.

(in answer to calculus)

Of course. Could have as many as 128 ESSM in the 32 MK41 cells, and 24 CAMM in the 6 ExLS cells.

Huh? You said it could be an all ESSM fit. Never mind ...

Timmymagic wrote:

Ron5 wrote:Except ExLs doesn't fit ESSM so that will always be filled with CAMM.

(in answer to calculus)

ExLS at present is a pure Sea Ceptor launch system. Some graphics showing other load outs are so dated they actually include NLOS...the most recent include RAM Blk.2, Nulka and Hellfire/JAGM. But none have been trialled or funded. Which I have to say is a surprise. Hellfire/JAGM in its only VL incarnation to date on LCS is a different, much simpler launcher, Nulka - why would you waste a VL tube when you can have one of the easy to site dedicated launchers elsewhere at a lower cost? And RAM Blk.2 has 2 different, standalone launchers available including self contained SeaRAM so why bother?

It looks like MBDA have got a dedicated launcher with lots of potential developed for free by accident...

It's by Lockheed so definitely not free to buy or maintain!!

Ron5 wrote:

calculus wrote:

Ron5 wrote:Except ExLs doesn't fit ESSM so that will always be filled with CAMM.

(in answer to calculus)

Of course. Could have as many as 128 ESSM in the 32 MK41 cells, and 24 CAMM in the 6 ExLS cells.

Huh? You said it could be an all ESSM fit. Never mind ...

I just re-read what I posted originally, and I can see how you would think that, so my apologies for the confusion. It seemed clear to me.

I should been more specific in stating that the ExLS was a constant (at 24 CAMM), with the 32 MK41s presenting the option to go all ESSM (for a maximum of 128).

Why would you want to fit a ship with both CAMM and ESSM (block 2)? They are functionally the same missile.

tomuk wrote:Why would you want to fit a ship with both CAMM and ESSM (block 2)? They are functionally the same missile.

ESSM Blk.2 will have greater range than standard Sea Ceptor. Obviously CAMM-ER will be competitive with ESSM Blk.2, but the Canadian's will be running their upgraded Halifax for quite a few years yet before they're totally replaced. The Halifax Class have ESSM and may have to have ESSM Blk.2 to remain viable for some of the intervening years until CSC arrives. Using ESSM Blk.2 would enable the Canadian's to bridge the gap whilst minimising expenditure on munitions that are then discarded if they went for a full Sea Ceptor and CAMM-ER fit. Having some commonality with the US is also important to Canada.

I do wonder if the CSC models get Phalanx mounted in the same position as the RN T26 in due course though, as the Canadian's recently upgraded their Phalanx to 1B standard (although each Halifax Class only has 1 so to equip all 15 T26 with Phalanx they'll need to buy 15 more). Mind you it might indicate that the Canadians don't see Phalanx as viable by the time that CSC arrives (which may have also driven the SeaRAM installation that was originally shown, a way to re-use the Phalanx mounts that with Sea Ceptor is not necessary?)

Ron5 wrote:It's by Lockheed so definitely not free to buy or maintain!!

That is true. But I bet the LM product manager for ExLS is thanking their lucky stars that MBDA and Sea Ceptor rolled into town, otherwise they'd be sitting on a massive flop at present (despite the idea being fundamentally sound).

^ Bow superblock UA/UB. See assembly diagram: https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/buildi ... 6-frigate/

Still nearly 2 years away from launch according to Navy Lookout tweet

The one guy in the photo must be the only one working on it

From recent official documents, it was shown that the 1st T31 will “go into service” on 2027, the same timing as the 1st T26 “commissions”. Also the document confirms, all 5 T31 will be “handed over” to RN by 2028, but no commission date for the 5th hull was shown.

The 1st T26 will be handed over to RN on 2025, while the 1st T31 also will be handed over around the same timing.

I cannot stop thinking, by investing (the now inflated) 2B GBP cost of 5 T31 into T26, RN would have had 3 more (in total 11) T26s. And, with 6+11 = 17 Tier-1 escorts, the building drumbeat of “Tier-1 escort shipyard” must have been faster, and hence cheaper.

Slow build of T26 is sad thing, but quite logical. Faster build (without increase in hull number) will result in big gap before T45 replacement, repeating the SSN (and T26 = River B2) issues.

Shorter life plus bigger fleet equals quicker build, cheaper ships plus better export prospects

20 year life plus 20 ship escort fleet equals one new ship a year

Also saves on expensive lifex refits, helps retention (new ships more pleasant to work in), influence abroad thru sales of used ships etc.

Jdam wrote:Still nearly 2 years away from launch according to Navy Lookout tweet

The one guy in the photo must be the only one working on it

Did he have a tube of glue in his hand then?

Ron5 wrote:Did he have a tube of glue in his hand then?

Ron5 wrote:

Jdam wrote:Still nearly 2 years away from launch according to Navy Lookout tweet

The one guy in the photo must be the only one working on it

Did he have a tube of glue in his hand then?

No, for a high end escort you use silicone, not glue

donald_of_tokyo wrote:From recent official documents, it was shown that the 1st T31 will “go into service” on 2027, the same timing as the 1st T26 “commissions”. Also the document confirms, all 5 T31 will be “handed over” to RN by 2028, but no commission date for the 5th hull was shown.

The 1st T26 will be handed over to RN on 2025, while the 1st T31 also will be handed over around the same timing.

Correction to the time line.

<1st T26>
- 2017 : cutting steel
- 2021 : hit the water
- 2025 (EDIT: not 2023) : delivered (=handed over) to RN (*1) (*3)
- 2027 : commission

<1st T31>
- 2021 : cutting steel (*2)
- 2023 : hit the water
- 2025 : delivered (=handed over) to RN
- 2027 : "in service"

(am I correct?)

*1: [EDIT] Recent UKDJ article states 2023, but it may be wrong. (If this is true, the crew is needed "by" 2023, from decommissioning Argyll). Note, once it was announced 2025 to my memory. In this case, T26 hull-1's crew will come from either HMS Lancaster or Iron Duke.

*2: They need to build a hall before cutting the steel. Babcock has only 23 months from now, until Dec 2021. Is it doable?

*3: I understand 2nd T26 follows her with 2 year shift in "start of build". This means her delivery will be much earlier than "2 years shift", In other words, 2nd T26 will be "delivered" in "early 2027".

A decade from cutting steel to in commission for the 1st T26, surely not

No. No idea where Donald got his dates from...

...but as I understand it for T26 first delivery to RN and commissioning likely to be 2025, with first operational deployment in 2027.

Construction and fit out to be finished in 2023, with contractor sea trials in 2024.

But dates are not fixed, and there is lots of wiggle room in the programme for the first of class.

Aethulwulf wrote:No. No idea where Donald got his dates from...

...but as I understand it for T26 first delivery to RN and commissioning likely to be 2025, with first operational deployment in 2027.

Construction and fit out to be finished in 2023, with contractor sea trials in 2024.

But dates are not fixed, and there is lots of wiggle room in the programme for the first of class.

Thanks. "2023 delivered" is from the UKDJ article, so it's wrong. Thanks.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/first-t ... the-clyde/

Royal Navy’s First Type 26 Frigate HMS Glasgow More Than Half Built

HMS Glasgow – the first of the Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigates – is now more than half-way through construction at BAE Systems Govan shipyard.

The next generation frigate is being built in numerous sections, or ‘units’, with the fore and aft sections of the 8,000-tonne warship being built separately. From there, once complete, the units are wheeled to the ship block and outfit hall where they are joined together and pipes and cabling linked up.

Just over half of HMS Glasgow is now complete or under construction, out of eight planned vessels in the class (all are named, three have been ordered, two are in build at Govan – HMS Cardiff is No.2).

Once the fore and aft sections are complete they will be joined on the hard in front of the block hall, before the bridge/main mast are craned into place.

The completed ship will then be ‘launched’ by being lowered into the Clyde via a barge, then towed downstream to BAE’s yard at Scotstoun to complete fitting out.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... alf-built/

Regarding dates, I am still being cautious and using: The first Type 26 warship, HMS Glasgow, will enter service in the mid-2020s. Designed for a service life of at least 25 years, the Type 26 frigates will serve in the future Royal Navy surface fleet into the 2060s.
And in the video (from DSEI), Geoff Searle says HMS Glasgow will enter the water in the "early 2020ies"

Would be nice to see more pictures of the T26 build. Not much coming out of BAe.

There's only one Bloke working on it, give him a chance!

Well the MOD said they wanted a low head count!

shark bait wrote:There's only one Bloke working on it, give him a chance!

Two. One's taking the photo.

Oh! So that is why there is no one working at any of the roadworks that I pass, wherever I drive.

A bit more of the jigsaw in place, those two guys must be working their nuts off :- Sorry about the additional tweets.