Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 13:11
Why would Lockheed, who is the prime on the Canadian frigate program, select a Spanish radar in preference to its own product?
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It appears to be the same: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-gove ... n-spy-7v1/NickC wrote:Not so surecalculus wrote:We now know the designation of the volume search radar for the RCN CSC T26 variant: AN/SPY-7 (V1): https://www.naval-technology.com/news/u ... n-spy-7v1/
The Japanese Aegis Ashore SPY-7 radar land based with its two large fixed face antennas for ballistic missile defence against threat from North Korea and China, based on the new Missile Defense Agency AESA S-band GaN LRDR sited in Alaska with its two massive ~3,000 square feet antennas. It appears Lockheed having problems downsizing as they replaced it with variant of Israeli Elta ELM-2084 used with Iron Dome/David's Sling in their losing bid for a new gen Patriot radar won by Raytheon only last month.
Lockheed have been assisting Indra in developing their new AESA S-band GaN frigate radar for the new Spanish F110s including integrating LM International Aegis Fire Control Loop to control SM-2s/ESSM, suspect this will be the radar fitted to the Canadian CSC/Type 26.
Some thoughts on pros for Lockheed going with Indra radar for the CSC, you may come with some cons.Ron5 wrote:Why would Lockheed, who is the prime on the Canadian frigate program, select a Spanish radar in preference to its own product?
Make the same point why should Lockheed spend the extra development money for new radar unless Canadians funding it, the Raytheon SPY-6(V)2/EASR development is funded by separate $92 million USN contract additional to the SPY-6(V)1 for Burke.calculus wrote:
It appears to be the same: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-gove ... n-spy-7v1/
The radar is scaleable (like AMDR SPY-6), so the panel size and configuration can change, but the underlying technology is the same.
The Type 26 frigate or City-class frigate is a class of frigate being built for the United Kingdom's Royal Navy. The ship design and manufacture programme, known as the Global Combat Ship, was created by the UK Ministry of Defence to partially replace the navy's thirteen Type 23 frigates, and for export. Its primary role is to conduct advanced anti-submarine warfare missions while supporting air defence and general purpose operations.
The programme began in 1998, under what was then known as the Future Surface Combatant (FSC). However, by March 2010, this procurement programme had evolved to become the Global Combat Ship, following the announcement of a four-year, £127 million design contract being awarded to BAE Systems Maritime – Naval Ships. The design passed Main Gate 1 in early 2015, with the Demonstration Phase starting 1 April 2015. In August 2015 the first long lead items for Type 26 were ordered, with manufacturing then expected to begin in 2016 and the first Type 26 to be delivered in 2023.. In November 2016 it was announced that first steel would be cut for the eight Royal Navy ships in summer 2017. They will be built at BAE Systems' Govan and Scotstoun yards on the River Clyde in Glasgow. The contract award to manufacture the Type 26 was announced by BAE Systems on 2 July 2017, with steel cut for the first of class, HMS Glasgow on 20 July 2017 by the then Secretary of State for Defence, Sir Michael Fallon.
In June 2018, the Australian Government announced that it had selected a modified version of the Type 26 platform as the planned replacement for its Anzac-class frigate. This will see the Royal Australian Navy procure up to nine Hunter-class frigates, which will be constructed by BAE Systems Australia at ASC's shipyard in Osborne, South Australia.
So only half the SeaCepter load out of the Royal Navy City Class, but with the addition of an extra 8-cell Mk41 VLS module, for a total of 32 Mk41 cells. I wonder what they’re going to put in all of them? Do any of you more knowledgable people know if the Canadians still have stocks of SM-2 from the Iroquois Class and for that matter do they have any intention to purchase tomahawk and/or ASROC?Ron5 wrote:Here's the other view ..
They’ve also got 8 canister launchers, so the equivalent of 40 Mk41s and 24 CAMM to our 24 Mk41s and 48 CAMMSimon82 wrote:So only half the SeaCepter load out of the Royal Navy City Class, but with the addition of an extra 8-cell Mk41 VLS module, for a total of 32 Mk41 cells. I wonder what they’re going to put in all of them? Do any of you more knowledgable people know if the Canadians still have stocks of SM-2 from the Iroquois Class and for that matter do they have any intention to purchase tomahawk and/or ASROC?Ron5 wrote:Here's the other view ..
was this model on show at SNA 2020 if so the US Naval top brass must be looking at it and thinking why are we not looking at this more many be the best ASW hull in the world with all the room we need to fit what we likeSimon82 wrote:
Is that 2 x 3 cell stand-alone Lockheed Martin ExLS VLS systems I spy just aft of the gas turbine intake/exhaust on this new model of the Canadian version of the Type 26?
I’d heard the Royal Canadian Navy were looking at SeaCeptor (CAMM) and I wondered where they were going to use it, but it appears their future frigates will carry 24 (assuming 4 missiles per VLS cell) in lieu of the CIWS (SeaRAM) shown on earlier renders.
Iv said it before not only are we ordering the smallest number of our own design but also arming them to the weakest spec, this won’t look good on the UK and RN on the world stage really.RetroSicotte wrote:Why is everyone assuming they are CAMM?
Canada already uses ESSM. It's far more likely they'll just pack that in instead.
Altogether an impressive ship. Wish the City class could take some lessons from it...
Has the "spec" actually been published? Apart from some details on the main gun and possibly the main radar, I thought everything was pretty speculative at the moment, based mainly on a bunch of models and sales brochures.Jake1992 wrote:Iv said it before not only are we ordering the smallest number of our own design but also arming them to the weakest spec, this won’t look good on the UK and RN on the world stage really.
Because that's what Jane's reported back in May.RetroSicotte wrote:Why is everyone assuming they are CAMM?
Aethulwulf wrote:From beyond the paywall...
"With the selection of the ExLS launcher in Canada, Jane's understands that the MBDA Common Anti-air Modular Missile (CAMM) is now also specified as the designated close-in defence missile system.
The selection of CAMM would mark a major success for MBDA. The missile is part of a multi-layer defense system, and Canada is also a member of the Evolved SeaSparrow Missile group and investing in development of Block II."
This is a topic of some debate on the Canadian defence forums, but the majority concensus is that the missile load-out will be mission specific. By mission specific I mean GP or AAW. These ships are being built around a powerful radar system (https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/sn ... y-7-radar/) which can provide long-range volume search, which will allow the CSC to take on an AAW role. The combination of the SPY-7, 32 x Mk41 VLS, and the 6 ExLS launchers would suggest that a CSC tasked with AAW would sail with all 32 Mk41s loaded with SM-x (either SM-2MR or SM-6, in all likelihood), with 24 CAMM for self defence. A CSC configured for the GP role would likely sail with CAMM, ESSM blk 2, and someSimon82 wrote:So only half the SeaCepter load out of the Royal Navy City Class, but with the addition of an extra 8-cell Mk41 VLS module, for a total of 32 Mk41 cells. I wonder what they’re going to put in all of them? Do any of you more knowledgable people know if the Canadians still have stocks of SM-2 from the Iroquois Class and for that matter do they have any intention to purchase tomahawk and/or ASROC?Ron5 wrote:Here's the other view ..
Presumably by the same logic you also think Lily Allen is one of the sexiest women alive because she has 3 nipples.Jake1992 wrote: Iv said it before not only are we ordering the smallest number of our own design but also arming them to the weakest spec, this won’t look good on the UK and RN on the world stage really.
As I have said before, there is no logic to this thinking, other than weak fantasy fulfillment.Jake1992 wrote:Iv said it before not only are we ordering the smallest number of our own design but also arming them to the weakest spec, this won’t look good on the UK and RN on the world stage really.RetroSicotte wrote:Why is everyone assuming they are CAMM?
Canada already uses ESSM. It's far more likely they'll just pack that in instead.
Altogether an impressive ship. Wish the City class could take some lessons from it...
Of course. Could have as many as 128 ESSM in the 32 MK41 cells, and 24 CAMM in the 6 ExLS cells.Ron5 wrote:Except ExLs doesn't fit ESSM so that will always be filled with CAMM.
(in answer to calculus)
A fine point to always back up a statement with reasoning. Although I am cautious of this becoming an "it should be fitted with" discussion in the News thread, which was why I chose a hopefully unantagonistic langauge of "take lessons from". In short, in relation to the lack of radar/medium-long air defence on the Type 26, which I feel are too little for a 2030's ship contrasted to the need for every ship to have some degree of missile defence that doesn't rely on short notice in the long range world of then.Aethulwulf wrote:By all means argue that the UK needs more T26s, or they should be better equipped. But support your arguments on the basis of why the UK needs such capabilities and for what tasks.
To say that we need more T26 or more capable T26 just because we have to over-match two of our closest allies is nonsense. We will not be fighting Canada or Australia. The RN needs to spend its budget to meet its actual needs and not spend it so you can win a game of top trumps.