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News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
143
52%
Kongsberg NSM
63
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
43
16%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 276

Pongoglo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Pongoglo » 21 Aug 2019, 16:05

UKDJ have just run an article on the T26 and a possible evolution path, even includes quite a nice graphic as to what an AAW variant could look like, as below;

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/the-typ ... y-concept/

Tried to attach the image but it says that the 'board attachment limit has been reached' . Anyone else having this prob or just me?

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 21 Aug 2019, 16:37

Pongoglo wrote:Anyone else having this prob or just me?
It's not just you....

Great link with some fantastically insightful comments at the bottom .

Jake1992
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 21 Aug 2019, 16:37

Pongoglo wrote:UKDJ have just run an article on the T26 and a possible evolution path, even includes quite a nice graphic as to what an AAW variant could look like, as below;

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/the-typ ... y-concept/

Tried to attach the image but it says that the 'board attachment limit has been reached' . Anyone else having this prob or just me?


Add a mid ship plug and for there’s the T4X the RNs own AB in a sense.

Yh Iv had this problem too on a few threads but then days later seen others can add images or videos, Iv messaged the mods about this but no one bothered to get back to me.

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 21 Aug 2019, 17:27

Just some Scottish politico shooting off

Courtesy of the journal's photoshop ..

Image

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 22 Aug 2019, 22:01

Jake1992 wrote:Add a mid ship plug and for there’s the T4X the RNs own AB in a sense.

Sounds like a good idea... the width is already there

Simon82
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Simon82 » 23 Aug 2019, 21:37

“There is also now increasing doubt that Type 31e will ever live up to its expectations on cost, capability and delivery schedule. Perhaps it might be best to emulate what Canada and Australia are doing and focus our efforts on an increased drumbeat of Type 26 production at a purpose built national naval shipbuilding centre of excellence.” - Paul Sweeney MP

Possibly the most sensible utterance I’ve heard from an politician all year!

Jake1992
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 23 Aug 2019, 22:19

Simon82 wrote:“There is also now increasing doubt that Type 31e will ever live up to its expectations on cost, capability and delivery schedule. Perhaps it might be best to emulate what Canada and Australia are doing and focus our efforts on an increased drumbeat of Type 26 production at a purpose built national naval shipbuilding centre of excellence.” - Paul Sweeney MP

Possibly the most sensible utterance I’ve heard from an politician all year!


It makes sense from a percurnent point of view but it doesn’t take in to account the political climate that requires the need to look at a second site.

If this political uncertainty wasn’t there it’d make sense to replicate what has been done with the sub builds in to an escort fertility along with another separate one for low end vessel ( MHCP, OPV ) and a dedicated site for larger vessels ( carriers, LPDs, so on )

Tempest414
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 24 Aug 2019, 09:55

It should also be noted that Mr Sweeney is MP for Glasgow North East so has an interest in seeing more type 26's being built in his town so maybe more self interest than common sense

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 24 Aug 2019, 15:16

serge750 wrote:Could the uk put a Legal Clause in the contract of any follow on batch's of T26 that if Scotland leaves the uk that BAE have to build the T26 in the UK & relocation costs are fully incurred by BAE & on schedule ?


BAE wouldn't sign such a contract.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 24 Aug 2019, 18:55

Tempest414 wrote:It should also be noted that Mr Sweeney is MP for Glasgow North East so has an interest in seeing more type 26's being built in his town so maybe more self interest than common sense


Who else was from "there abouts" and made sure, contractually, that TWO, not just one, carriers would get built? :)
- and the one and the same person (the maiden, writing the contract, on the Political Master's behalf) then became the "main man" reporting on its 'execution' to the Parliament :lol:

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 26 Sep 2019, 20:25


SD67
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SD67 » 27 Sep 2019, 08:57

Simon82 wrote:“There is also now increasing doubt that Type 31e will ever live up to its expectations on cost, capability and delivery schedule. Perhaps it might be best to emulate what Canada and Australia are doing and focus our efforts on an increased drumbeat of Type 26 production at a purpose built national naval shipbuilding centre of excellence.” - Paul Sweeney MP

Possibly the most sensible utterance I’ve heard from an politician all year!


I do't agree with this, the cost difference is far too great, and in any case an all-26 buy would cause escort numbers to drop off dramatically in the mid 2020s. The RN know what they're doing, they're holding to the 250 million construction cost vs 1.2 billion for a T26. I believe it's deliverable, no doubt with the help of a shed full of Romanians on zero hours contracts

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 27 Sep 2019, 16:42

There is zero chance the Type 31's are delivered at 250m each.

Trivial pursuit: what was the last RN warship class to be delivered at original budget?

Doesn't mean the Type 31's are bad ships or should be cancelled but let's be real here.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 27 Sep 2019, 20:19

Ron5 wrote:Trivial pursuit: what was the last RN warship class to be delivered at original budget?


For the winners :lolno:
- the last RN warship class that did not get cut back as for numbers
- REF: Q1 :lol:

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 27 Sep 2019, 20:21

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Trivial pursuit: what was the last RN warship class to be delivered at original budget?


For the winners :lolno:
- the last RN warship class that did not get cut back as for numbers
- REF: Q1 :lol:


Excellent!!

SD67
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SD67 » 27 Sep 2019, 22:49

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Trivial pursuit: what was the last RN warship class to be delivered at original budget?


For the winners :lolno:
- the last RN warship class that did not get cut back as for numbers
- REF: Q1 :lol:

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Trivial pursuit: what was the last RN warship class to be delivered at original budget?


For the winners :lolno:
- the last RN warship class that did not get cut back as for numbers
- REF: Q1 :lol:


T23? Weren't they actually coming in under budget by the end of the run? Honestly I think Babcock can do it, they're a very tight company

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 28 Sep 2019, 06:40

Ron5 wrote:There is zero chance the Type 31's are delivered at 250m each.

Trivial pursuit: what was the last RN warship class to be delivered at original budget?

Doesn't mean the Type 31's are bad ships or should be cancelled but let's be real here.
Not sure.

1: In many cases, the "cost rise" problem happens right before the order.

2: Cost rise AFTER contract sometimes happen, and sometimes not, to my memory. (Here, if the cost rise is within 10% or so, I do not think it is a "rise", just eating the margin.)

T23 build is, to my memory, also within the budget in many cases. (Here, this "budget" is NOT the "foreseen program budget" listed in 1980s, but comparing between contract and delivery.)

Bad example is the Bay class, especially the SwanHunter's case.

So, my big interest now is on, two standpoints.

1: before contract: with what cost and what specification Babcock will contract with MOD to build the 5 T31. After the contract was formed, then there is a good possibility it will be done within the cost, if the contractor was well trained.

2: after contract: Can Babcock be considered as "well trained"? Not clear at all. Babcock has never built an escort warship, but only OPV and survey ships. SwanHunter was an escort builder, but also had an experience of a Fort and 2 Rovers before the 2 Bays, but the issue happened. Also, Arrowhead 140 design itself is new to Babcock. If there are many "hidden knowledge" which is "common sense" for Denmark, but "quite fresh" for Babcock, it will cause a disaster.


Overall, I have no idea. Blaming for risk is justified and counter-arguing for support is also justified. Both claim has no strong standpoint. So, preparing for cost rise is right thing to do. If no cost rise took place, the money can go elsewhere (such as more SSM). No problem, RN will lose nothing in this case. If being optimistic and failed, then RN will be forced to cut something else, as usual.

Tempest414
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 28 Sep 2019, 09:15

As I keep saying type 31 will end up costing 310 million to get the ship the RN needs in my mind

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 28 Sep 2019, 11:03

Tempest414 wrote:As I keep saying type 31 will end up costing 310 million to get the ship the RN needs in my mind
I think it needs to be a bit higher.

Around £350m to £375m is the sweet spot for the T31 to make it a credible GP Frigate. Still excellent value for money in that price range.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 28 Sep 2019, 13:42

This topic has been labeled News Only meaning only discussions related to news items is permitted. Any extended and more generalised discussions must be held elsewhere. All off-topic posts beyond this notification will be deleted and their author's penalised. Please read the opening post for more information.


RetroSicotte
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RetroSicotte » 02 Oct 2019, 08:52

Big plume of white smoke coming from the yard this morning drifting over the river, saw it during the morning stand up.

Hoping everything's okay in there.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 12 Oct 2019, 04:07

:( RN T26, RAN Hunter class, and RCS version comparison:

In short, only 5 parts will change
- foremast and radars on it
- CMS
- Mk.41 VLS arrangement
- SSM on top of the mission bay
- and SH-60R handing

Common, includes:
- most of the platform systems (Drive trains, Power generation system etc)
- 5inch gun (highly probable with its automated arsenal)
- CAPTAS-4 sonar

Well known issues, but good confirmation by RAN Hunter class responsible person's direct comment. I think high commonality is a very good news on UK industry (of course, not all the platform systems on T26 is from UK though), and maintenance/logistics.

Mission bay size:

- If the ISO 20ft container size in the model is "up to scale", it looks like the mission bay door is as wide (long) as 13m. Also, the port-side RHIB alcove (there is nothing in the starboard side) looks "9.5m capable".
- Small opening right behind the alcove looks like the AS torpedo launcher? (other sites also suggest so). If true, space is left and adding it on RN T26 will be very easy with tiny money. May be RAN/RCN will prove it efficient or not, and RN can easily add it or leave it in future, respectively.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 16 Oct 2019, 10:16

Slow progress but progress nonetheless.


NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 29 Oct 2019, 14:26

First time have seen the power of the new T26 shaft mounted electric motors quoted, re. GE PR quoted by NavalNews, re. their bid for the propulsion system for possible future 8,000t KDDX Korean destroyer.

"The HED system would use the 3.4 MW shock tested motor designed for the United Kingdom Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigate."

Presume the 6.8 MWs good for ~15/16 knots with the 8,000t T26?

GE also state "Our HED motor is the right size motor for KDDX and GE is the only manufacturer to build a naval motor over 2.5 MW. “, which seems untrue as the Siemens motor is more powerful, unless GE don't classify it as naval motor?

German 7,200t F125 uses 2x Siemens 4.7 MW motors, Italian 6,700t FREMM 2x 2.1 MW motors, Spanish 6,100t F110 2x 3.4 MW motors.

From <https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/madex-2019/2019/10/madex-2019-ge-offers-lm2500-engine-for-rok-navy-kddx-and-lpx-ii-programs/>

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 29 Oct 2019, 14:34

Maybe those other motors run through gears to the drive line unlike the GE product?


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