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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
143
52%
Kongsberg NSM
63
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
43
16%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 276

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shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 25 Apr 2019, 09:43

Aethulwulf wrote:When was the last time that a UK warship design was considered by the USN?

They stole one in the 1800's, does that count?
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~UNiOnJaCk~
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 25 Apr 2019, 10:49

That article also seems to suggest there is "speculation" around possibly cancelling the T31 in favour of my Type 26s.

First I've ever heard of that suggestion. Is this something others have come across?

Given the accuracy of the article however I'm not reading that much into it.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 25 Apr 2019, 10:51

The author must have been reading this forum :lol:
@LandSharkUK

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Halidon
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Halidon » 25 Apr 2019, 15:24

This wasn't just any Proceedings article, this was a Proccedings article by Norman Friedman. Even with Greenert's gang of dunces still running things, there are plenty of Navy people who take special note when someone like Friedman opines.
RetroSicotte wrote:Similarly, where did that "two versions" thing for the Canadian one come from? That's new to me.

I think I've mentioned it before and I'm fairly sure Xav has. The Canadians intend that a trio of their T26s will be Air Defense-focused, the rest of the order being GP/ASW.

Aethulwulf wrote:When was the last time that a UK warship design was considered by the USN?

Well we borrowed some during WW2, and there's plenty of individual UK systems that have been adopted at various times.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 25 Apr 2019, 15:58

Halidon wrote:The Canadians intend that a trio of their T26s will be Air Defense-focused...
It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Any idea if it's the first three or the last three?

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Halidon
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Halidon » 25 Apr 2019, 16:16

Poiuytrewq wrote:
Halidon wrote:The Canadians intend that a trio of their T26s will be Air Defense-focused...
It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Any idea if it's the first three or the last three?

I've not seen firm plans as of yet, but the intention as I understood it was to start with the AAW hulls and switch to the GP/ASW, so that the Air Defense mission wouldn't be endangered if the class was shortened from the 15 planned hulls. I've also seen talk of building only 2 full AAW hulls, or up to 5, and even of having transitional hulls that have the ability to be upgraded to the full Air Defense spec later if needed.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jdam » 25 Apr 2019, 17:02

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote:That article also seems to suggest there is "speculation" around possibly cancelling the T31 in favour of my Type 26s.

First I've ever heard of that suggestion. Is this something others have come across?

Given the accuracy of the article however I'm not reading that much into it.


That stuck out to me as well, I would love to hear more about that!

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Apr 2019, 17:10

Jdam wrote:
~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote:That article also seems to suggest there is "speculation" around possibly cancelling the T31 in favour of my Type 26s.

First I've ever heard of that suggestion. Is this something others have come across?

Given the accuracy of the article however I'm not reading that much into it.


That stuck out to me as well, I would love to hear more about that!


He said that but he also said that Canada was considering the T31 on top of the T26 order, it can’t be both either their considering the T31 or were cancelling it

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby inch » 25 Apr 2019, 17:45

I think it's all a case of us grasping at straws thinking the us might go for the t26 derivative or us cancel t31 and getting more t26 instead folks ,I can't put anybody down for wishing it tho

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Aethulwulf » 25 Apr 2019, 18:20

Jake1992 wrote:He said that but he also said that Canada was considering the T31 on top of the T26 order, it can’t be both either their considering the T31 or were cancelling it
No he didn't. There is no mention in the article of Canada considering T31.

Anyway, what we have here is a highly respected and well connected US commentator saying there is a strong argument for the FFG(X) to be big. He doesn't mention either bid based on the LCS designs, but the implication is against picking these smaller ships.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Apr 2019, 18:35

Aethulwulf wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:He said that but he also said that Canada was considering the T31 on top of the T26 order, it can’t be both either their considering the T31 or were cancelling it
No he didn't. There is no mention in the article of Canada considering T31.

Anyway, what we have here is a highly respected and well connected US commentator saying there is a strong argument for the FFG(X) to be big. He doesn't mention either bid based on the LCS designs, but the implication is against picking these smaller ships.


Your right I misread part of the article my mistake apologies

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby WhiteWhale » 25 Apr 2019, 18:47

Halidon wrote:Well we borrowed some during WW2, and there's plenty of individual UK systems that have been adopted at various times.



Borrowed a whole aircraft carrier at one point, the necessities of war made for some quirks.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 26 Apr 2019, 01:40

WhiteWhale wrote:Borrowed a whole aircraft carrier at one point,


Went both ways, then.

Don't think we would get a Ford for a QE?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RetroSicotte » 26 Apr 2019, 08:14

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
WhiteWhale wrote:Borrowed a whole aircraft carrier at one point,


Went both ways, then.

Don't think we would get a Ford for a QE?

At this point most of the US would happily give us a Ford + Planes if we gave them the Queen to replace the current Presidency ;)

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 26 Apr 2019, 09:50

My view on this is that Type 31 will go to Leander which will allow BAE to have a foot hold in a English yard in case the Scots vote to leave the union this allows them to build up the skill sets needed using T-31 which if needed could move on to building the 2nd or 3rd batch of T-26 if they had to leave Scotland. As for T-26 I do see a 9th ship at the end of the build if the Scottish question is sorted.

I also feel that what ever the out come of the independence vote ( if it happens) we need to build a escort factory in Scotland if they stay ( and if they stay it will have to be for 50 years plus ) or England if they don't

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Caribbean » 26 Apr 2019, 09:53

RetroSicotte wrote:At this point most of the US would happily give us a Ford + Planes if we gave them the Queen to replace the current Presidency

Well - she has 16 crowns, I'm sure she could fit another one in her jewellery box.

Can we give them a couple of used Prime Ministers as well?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby serge750 » 26 Apr 2019, 17:43

RetroSicotte wrote:
ArmChairCivvy wrote:
WhiteWhale wrote:Borrowed a whole aircraft carrier at one point,


Went both ways, then.

Don't think we would get a Ford for a QE?

At this point most of the US would happily give us a Ford + Planes if we gave them the Queen to replace the current Presidency ;)


Wonder if they would stump up for the extra 3000+ crew aswell …. :lolno: or would it be a 2 for 1 deal.... :lol:

Rambo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Rambo » 26 Apr 2019, 20:50

Apologies if this has been mentioned before. Saw this tweet from a few days ago. The image looks different to the previous ones i’ve seen. most notably the Phalanx forward of the bridge. Can’t see the other? maybe a re design? cost saving?
It also says they are now 1.2b each..

*edit ive just realised this is an old CGI image*


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 27 Apr 2019, 00:15

Rambo wrote:Apologies if this has been mentioned before. Saw this tweet from a few days ago. The image looks different to the previous ones i’ve seen. most notably the Phalanx forward of the bridge. Can’t see the other? maybe a re design? cost saving?
It also says they are now 1.2b each..

*edit ive just realised this is an old CGI image*



That’s an old concept design used there you can tell by the cheeks on the bridge.

The first 3 will cost around £1.2bn each that is including all design costs, the average cost once all eight are ordered will be £1bn each and the per unit cost for any follow ons is expected to be around £700-£800m each

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 27 Apr 2019, 01:51

Jake1992 wrote:average cost once all eight are ordered will be £1bn each and the per unit cost for any follow ons is expected to be around £700-£800m each


Sounds like the T-45 figures... and no follow-ons were ordered

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 27 Apr 2019, 09:10

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:average cost once all eight are ordered will be £1bn each and the per unit cost for any follow ons is expected to be around £700-£800m each


Sounds like the T-45 figures... and no follow-ons were ordered


Pretty much Yh, it’s just more HMG tightness and short sightedness

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Repulse » 27 Apr 2019, 10:40

Agreed, the cost of “short” batch runs using new designs rather than evolving an existing one.

I know there is an argument to have new designs to keep our design teams busy / trained, but my view is over the next 25 years we should focus on evolving the T26 and River designs and reducing the unit cost through efficiency of scale.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 27 Apr 2019, 11:18

Repulse wrote:we should focus on evolving the T26 and River designs and reducing the unit cost through efficiency of scale.


Leander is the ultimate evolution of the River class

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 27 Apr 2019, 11:35

Repulse wrote:Agreed, the cost of “short” batch runs using new designs rather than evolving an existing one.

I know there is an argument to have new designs to keep our design teams busy / trained, but my view is over the next 25 years we should focus on evolving the T26 and River designs and reducing the unit cost through efficiency of scale.


This is where I think that HMG and BAE are missing a trick with the T26 design, this design it’s self has shown to be world class and able to win competitions. They should be looking at designing a family of 3 vessels based on the design that would filling the roles from light frigate to AAW destroyer.

We’d start with the T26 as is, shown to be a world class ASW vessel with a flexible pay load of up to 48 mk41s and 12-15 ExLS ( in the RN case )

I’d then go for a light frigate set up, this would be a shorter striped down version a T27 let’s say.
Everything up to the rear of the superstructure would remain the same, after that the flight deck would be shorted to a merlin capable and the mission bay would be removed, I set the hanger out to handle a merlins plus a few IOS containers. It’d have cheaper noisier engines but allow for other opitions.
At around 130m by 21m and 5,000t
At top speed of 25-26 knots
Endurance of 30 odd days
This would compete against the likes of the FTI and I think would appeal to navies that want a capable platform but can’t afford something like the T26, say Brazil, chilli, RNZN, Singapore, South Africa. It should aim for a price tag of £500m odd

The finale design would be a T48 this would be the AAW replacement for the T45s, it’d take the T26 design and and a 15m plug mid ship to allow for greater VLS numbers and the larger multiple radars.
Once again this would and cheaper noise engines and all the ASW quietening taken out.
We’d be looking at something like this
165m by 21m
9,000-10,000t
Top speed of around 30knots
Endurance of 45 odd days
96 mk41s for AAW BMD AShW land strike basic ASW defence
Should be aiming for a unit price of around £800m
This would in effect be a British AB and could appeal to the like of RAN RCN as add ons or instead of some of there T26s

This family of vessels based on one parent design that offers a lot of commonality amoungst then could be a gamer changer but it’d require forward planing and investment by both the MOD and BAE.

I would upload a image of the 3 to give a better idea but the thread won’t allow me.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Repulse » 27 Apr 2019, 12:04

Tempest414 wrote:Leander is the ultimate evolution of the River class


Yes, it could be as a Sloop / Corvette not as a Frigate
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill


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