Those are fair points, although there are also counter-arguments: automation has moved on too, so ships can operate with smaller crews than in the past, allowing better accommodation. Indeed that is true, and without all the anti submarine sensors you don't need sonar specialists on board either, s...

Nobody has mentioned a 3000-4000 tonne frigate. Keep up man. They have. We are having a nice conceptual discussion about different designs, that you clearly haven't taken in. The SDSR mentioned 'lighter' but not what it is relative to. We must presume they mean the T26 which could mean anything up ...

A question for you: do you regard the Type 23 as a "proper frigate"? Yes, the Type 23 is undoubtedly a proper frigate, large and very well equiped. I think fitting that stuff on to a modern frigate in the 3,000-4,000 size range, and still have an effective future proofed platform is diffi...

The whole point about the light frigate concept is that such ships would free up the more capable frigates and destroyers to concentrate on escorting the carriers, rather than being pulled away on all sorts of other duties. I think the concept of a light frigate freeing up real escorts is something...

mass produced light ships - Frigates - were the bread and butter of Royal Naval operations at the height of its power and with them we successfully maintained an Empire and secured a hegemon over the seas lasting two centuries or more. Are you seriously comparing the Royal Navy of then to the Royal...

Also, 'light' need not equal a downgrade - as i have been saying for the past few days, look to our continental neighbours when it comes to light concepts done right. Honestly, provided this programme is done justice, i am of the opinion that this new initiative has the potential to be just what th...

Just what is so terrible about a general-purpose T23? Since that's roughly the size and capability a light frigate might reasonably have, while being sufficiently cheaper than a T26 to be worthwhile. And the alternative to a light frigate is likely to be no frigates - but maybe some more OPVs :roll...

I suppose only two points are different among us. - you want the light frigate to be powerful by itself, I propose it to be an asset integrated within the escort flotilla (to save money and increase number). - you start from scratch to estimate the cost (optimistic), I start from cutting the T26 (p...

Forgot about the windows. I like Pseudos suggestion though.

Cameron would love to watch babe running the length of his cabin on his trips

@Shark Bait Thanks for reply. I am go for, 5in gun, 24 CAMS, Merlin capable deck and Wildcat (or Merlin) capable hanger and good range. No quiet hull, no S2087. So your issue is, how cheap the light frigate can be WITH strike VLS and mission bay. I do agree we can make room for 16 cells Mk.41 VLS &...

The Italian Vulcano GLR (Guided Long Range) projectiles for the 5" gun have a maximum range of 80 km against ships, 100 km against land targets. That should deal with most threats. And at a lot less than these ranges, a terrorist group will be firing "blind". Indeed it does, and woul...

Already T26 has only a minimum set of sensor, only 1 MFR Type-997, which is NOT gold-plated in any sense, and what is more, to be retro-fitted from decommissioning T23s. I'm afraid there is no sensor remaining to make it "simpler"? Maybe the hull sonar? Thank you for teaching me some Japa...

I have also consistently argued that the lighter frigate needs both the 5" gun and precision-guided long-range munitions to fire from it. It will also have a Wildcat, with its own teeth. Your gun will be out ranged by missiles. The wild cat cant carry a big enough punch. Both are serious credi...

Anti-ship missiles is what Sea Ceptor is specifically designed to counter, and I have consistently argued that they must be a part of the lighter frigate specification Indeed, now you have a ship that can protect its self for a time, but can't do anything about the people throwing missiles towards ...

I think we can all agree that once these vessels are off the drawing board they aren't going to be tasked against Submarines. Shouldn't we refer to the the T23's without the ASW fit as a basis? They certainly aren't going to be hunting subs down themselves as the T23 currently does. However they co...

The point of a light frigate is to carry out the routine low-to-medium threat work, i.e. mostly working on their own, far from the carriers, freeing up the high-end escorts to focus on carrier force protection. Here we are again designing ships to fight this imaginary low threat enemy. I don't know...

seaspear wrote:it should not be there to just make up the numbers otherwise it is an expensive waste of money what ever the cost

Absolutely! That is my biggest concern with a light frigate.

more exportable frigate Don't beleive that bullshit. That was just a tag line they strapped onto the SDSR. The only reason they are switching to a lighter firgate is beause they doubt they can control the costs of the T26 program, it has very little do to with exports. Sea Ceptor and a 5" gun ...

@Ron5, totally agree with points 1, 2 & 3. Clearly we should have a LPH, but fudging it into the carriers is not right. We will just have to wait until we can replace Albion and Bulwark with something a bit more useful. We are taking much worse capability gaps now, I'm sure we can see this one t...

Historically that's what you get. Indeed. However I believe the hope is to get up to 3/5 available, so marginally more. Even if we can achieve 3/5 available it is still not enough, especially as our carriers have no self defense. Personally, I am NOT looking much for - ASW because SDSR15 introduced...

Why cant we just have a proper coastguard like everyone else? Why does HM Coastguard, Border Force and Marine Scotland all have to exist independently? Surely we should consolidate them into a single maritime authority, called HM Coastguard. A better use of resources that way. I could whole hearted...

Even ignoring the fact that i think the premise is wrong to start with, but the question i'll forward is: how is the Royal Navy ever going to realistically benefit in any way by surrendering some more ships and some more money and manpower...? To be honest, I just wanted to see how keen shark bait ...

Pseudo wrote:Maybe we could make North Atlantic Fisheries Protection a civilian responsibility and gift the batch one River's to them.

I think that's exactly what we should do. I have said this before, fisheries protection is no longer a military matter.

A while back there was some chatter about the batch 1's being civilian manned.

I think I would be good if the ones where civilian crewed for UK operations, then the rest of the rivers navy crewed and deployed overseas. Best way to make use out of a bad situation.

arfah wrote: My personal opinion is we should use a proper LPH/LHD for this role.

Absolutely do, it is not the role of a carrier.