It is my view if type 32 does go ahead that it should be a Absalon class ship capable of carrying 160 troops 2 Merlin's or 4 Wildcats plus up to 6 ORC. it should be armed with 1 x 127mm , 2 x 40mm , 24 CAMM + 24 Mk-41 this paired with a remodeled Osumi class with a 180 x 30 flight deck with a slimm...

For MRSS, how about Osumi-class like ship? IMO until the FCF concept is actually explained in detail the MRSS direction of travel is highly questionable. Due to this the configuration of the MRSS is highly debatable and will be for some time. Displacement 13,000 t (13,000 long tons) full load Size ...

The HN v2 looks to be extremely well balanced, the T31 not so much….

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑18 May 2022, 17:34 Well you just quoted one line of what I said. I used the words "clearly" as I don't believe that RN needs a LPD dedicated to anti aircraft defence!!!!

No argument there.

IMO we’ve already got sufficient platforms for ship deployed large drones given our current budgets, priorities and aspirations. Sorry but I have to disagree. The CVFs aside the UK doesn’t have a vessel with a flat top suitable for operating medium or large MALE drones. HMS Ocean fully loaded with ...

Clearly not what RN needs… Is it clear? Perhaps not in the Amphibious sense but modest flat tops with a modest floodable well dock could become much more common as unmanned system start to proliferate. Although Amphibious vessels are capable of deploying these rapidly evolving autonomous systems it...

By not building the T32… What is a T32? Could they be the same thing? For example, most expect the T32 to be an escort with both ASW and land attack capabilities that is also capable of operating next generation UAV’s, UUV’s and USV’s plus a single helicopter. Likely budget around £500m per hull or...

But this means RN cannot invest more on "LSDs" or large "LHDs with dock" Not necessarily. Very clearly an LPH or LHD is optimised for helicopters. Completely designing assault ships for exclusively operating helicopters is the past and the present but certainly not the future. I...

The recent Russian catastrophe crossing a river is for me a prime example of what can happen when forces are grouped at the point of entry and why neutralisation of defences and air superiority is essential before you can even consider landing a significant force over the beach. This is one of the ...

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 00:04

that was the excuse that the Marina Militare (Italian Navy) came up with for not buying the CAMM-ER because for safety reasons it's wasn't compatible with the Sylver VLS for the new European Corvette Program.

Very interesting info. Thanks!

How does that affect the possibility of quad packing?

True, but not necessarily the whizz bang Amphibious Assault shipping that some have described on this thread previously - more smaller FCF platforms suited for smaller raiding / insertion ops in the Baltics and Norwegian fjords with amphibious logistics to move large army groups into position quick...

Repulse wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 12:07 …JEF is and will be increasingly a key part of the UKs NATO commitment.

Which will require substantially more Amphibious shipping than transporting/deploying a FCF Company for short endurance Littoral Strike Ops.

jedibeeftrix wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 09:19 do we know what the way forward is with FCF, such that we can pronounce with confidence on whether we are deviating from the dream or otherwise?

And how does adding Sweden and Finland to the NATO umbrella change the scale of the ambition?

Jdam wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 16:07 No mid missile launchers?

Is there still space for 64 quad packed CAMM (or equivalent) forward of the Mk41 cells?

I cannot see the planned MRSS turning out to be mini flat tops operating squadrons of UAS. Impossible to predict either way at present but it’s clear current concepts for the MRSS such as Ellida have little capacity for embarking medium to large drones or even helicopters. MRSS still looks like it ...

The US has previously gone for very capable but very epensive drones. Primarily for conflicts against insurgents rather than a peer on peer conflict. Against a peer rival the high rate of attrition of such valuable assets would in all likelihood be unsustainable for the UK. Ideally the UK can devel...

SW1 wrote: ↑10 May 2022, 21:49 Hence project mosquito the loyal wingman

Project Mosquito is neither low cost or STOL.

I have always believed Project Mosquito to be a way to fill the CVF’s with a lower cost alternative to the £90m F35b.

As for a drone that is expect to be lost so needs to be cheap then neither are really an option as they would be a similar lose to a wildcat. Exactly. It is the capability that is the important part. The next generation of drones need to be built down to a cost as they will be the tip of the spear....

It is interesting but the V-247 offers a similar capability while being able to operate off any vessel that can operate a merlin At what cost? IMO the rate of attrition of these drones is going to be very high especially when used against a peer or near peer adversary. As such, the cost of each dro...

https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/indo-pacific-2022/2022/05/general-atomics-unveils-mq-9b-stol-for-small-flat-tops/ Very interesting development. This is one of the reasons why the MRSS needs much more careful thought than the standard LPD or LSD type designs. Is STOL drones the future? Perhaps n...

For years I have seen articles and discussions as to how 13 Frigates was the absolute minimum that the RN needed. So we have quietly dropped to 12 Frigates (and soon to 11), admitedly partly made up by the River B2's covering overseas deployments. With 4 T23 Frigates until recently being in LIFEX (...

…..before talking about more weapons and/or more hulls…..UK need good amount of ammo and logistics/spare-parts….. Completely agree. Low stocking levels of missiles, consumables and spare parts have been a perennial problem which to be fair was tackled to a certain extent in the Integrated Review. T...

The simple solution is more money for defence. 3% will have to happen now. Noticeable cuts are not politically sustainable in the current climate or for the foreseeable future. IMO, adding lethality to RN vessels is a no-brainer but cutting capabilities to fund it is not acceptable. Extra money for ...

Aptly named and a cost effective solution especially if deployed via drones.

https://afresearchlab.com/news/afrl-tec ... a-reality/

…maybe GBP 50-80M per ship…….no more than 10-20 crew per ship Exactlty. IMO if the T31 is commissioned as originally envisaged it will be the next “Aircraft carriers without planes” PR disaster for RN, the MoD and HMG. Frigates that can’t detect submarines is political dynamite in this climate and ...