Sorry, but we are stuck in the past. Having a RM Brigade is absolutely pointless unless you have air superiority and ships capable to get them landed safely…..Let’s move on shall we The reason contributors can’t move on is primarily because HMG/MoD/RN/RM collectively have done such a terrible job i...

…the Royal Marines should have been expanded by a Commando (up to 8,500), with Brigade level operations fully supported and a single Commando dedicated to to the Raider concept. …the size of the RM increased by the establishment of an additional Commando that would be dedicated to the Raider Concep...

Moved across: I don't think the government wants a global force The Integrated Review is all about making the Army a more globally deployed force so it’s difficult to agree. It is clear however that HMT is not currently prepared to pay for it. ….nor the slightest intention of paying for a large incr...

Moved across.

If your adding that many helicopters to these supposed LRGs it’s really just the carrier group. It depends what constitutes an LRG. If LRG(S) is formed with a Bay, Argus and two T31’s then the group has theoretical capacity of 6x Merlin and 6x Wildcat. Adding Apache and Chinook is more of a challen...

Tempest414 wrote: ↑27 May 2023, 07:57 ….the armies Wildcats need to go to the Navy

This would instantly solve the RN helicopter shortage and remove the “no need for more hangers as not enough helicopters” argument.

With this the LRG's can have a mix of 4 x Merlin and 4 x Wildcat

Perfect, that’s all that is required.

SW1 wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 20:10 That is not what the government currently requires. It is your wish list.

What does the government currently require?

SW1 wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 19:37 So what is the ambition that requires more chinook or Merlin at sea??

Very simple.

Can RN operate the CSG plus LRG(N) and LRG(S) whilst maintaining the required helicopters on all available escorts concurrently?

tomuk wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 18:57

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 18:32

Repulse wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 16:24 Pros:

Also MROSS(2) would be perfect to fill a gap at Rosyth in the early 2030s if one was to appear in the drumbeat.

What goes in the gap before then?

If there isn’t either a second batch of T31’s or a batch of T32’s then there is no drumbeat and one of the UK yards will close.

More Merlin’s make zero sense. Especially if your wanting merlin to operate in mountains or anywhere hot like the gulf and east Africa. The Puma replacement revolves around moving special forces teams in confined urban and other areas. Merlin is chinook footprint with poor lift in global locations ...

Repulse wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 16:24 Pros:

Also MROSS(2) would be perfect to fill a gap at Rosyth in the early 2030s if one was to appear in the drumbeat.

If we could get type 31 to a place where it had 32 Mk-41 cells and 8 NSM the RN would have pulled off a blinder. Yes we could then go on to add a CAPTAS-4 and more NSM if the money is there Agreed. The question is how to do it most efficiently without blowing the budget so that a second, follow-on ...

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 14:15 A bit surprised many think it is a win. MROSS(2) has gone away for a decade. Win??

Pros and cons?

Because it’s far too large costly and unsuitable for a puma replacement not to mention its wheezy in hot and high conditions. What price commonality? Small batches of virtually bespoke types is the most expensive way to operate. Does the Army Wildcat even still make sense or would a Puma/Wildcat jo...

If the will was there, you could get more firepower on the design than any current escort in Western Europe. Exactly but how much firepower does the T31 actually need? IMO the T31 needs to match the Constellation class both offensively and defensively. Effectively a half price global combat ship wi...

serge750 wrote: ↑25 May 2023, 20:21 Excelent news ! now if the RN could order some more aswell

Why not for the Puma replacements?

Strike while the line is hot!

Making a difference?

Is a single 40mm on the stern of a T31 enough to stop a dozen of these?

If so then as global tensions continue to escalate, to me it would make sense to up-arm the River B2's accordingly, albeit in a suitably low cost manner, so that RN's main funds can be focussed on Warfighting escorts. In an ideal world with an unlimited budget that would be great but cuts are comin...

….VL Spear they could be quad packed in MK-41 Regardless of PODs, VL Spear3 or something similar is very important for the T31 and the FCF. Quad packed in a T31 Mk41’s cells gives a max load of 128x VL Spear3 plus 16x NSM and and 32x CAMM which probably negates the need for NGS. Two T31s configured...

Interesting list…. Agreed, and the T31 GP compares remarkably well if configured to the full potential. The FDI is the direct competition which adjusted for inflation much be around £500m now. The T31 GP beats the FDI on virtually every metric including price. The £450m T31 GP is very well rounded ...

I don't exactly see what you are saying here. Both 40mm are in the most optimal possitions for firing arks, creating a 360 CIWS. These placements have no impact on the midship area dedicated to VLS / boat bays. What I am suggesting is far from radical. Go back to the beginning and start with a clea...

Thoughts? Excellent analysis. A few thoughts: 1: With 24 or 32 CAMM added to the 32x Mk41s does the 57mm/2x40mm setup still make sense? Would 57mm in A position and port/starboard 40mm plus 32CAMM in the B position make optimal use of space? This would maintain the ability to embark 16x NSM if requ...

Tempest414 wrote: ↑20 May 2023, 09:12 The big thing for me is the B1's remaining until 2028 this is good news

Interesting as that timeframe slots nicely into the Rosyth drumbeat as well as the introduction of the T31s.

Make of that what you will.

…lets push the boat out…. I don’t know about pushing the boat out but RFA Fort Victoria may need to be put under tow! It’s 50/50 if Fort Vic will even make it to 2025. Mind the gap….again! The whole strategy is going to disintegrate if RFA recruitment and retention is not sorted asap. The big thing...