shark bait wrote:If building anything in that region, it should be logistics.

Having a RFA Tanker / AOR based EoS as part of a LSG is probable, but the running costs are at least twice that of a River.

All of this talk, and no one has stated what real benefit a patrol vessel in Singapore achieves. Singapore would be it’s base, but it’s operational area will be from the eastern part of the Indian Ocean to the Western Pacific. What are the benefits for what is likely < £10mn a year: 1) Training: gi...

Personally, I would not base two B2s in Singapore, but have one operating off the Horn of Africa based in Oman. This would then be the permanent contribution in the fight against piracy in the region and act as a secondary vessels (like the MCMs) to escort tankers etc through the Gulf when tensions ...

What will they do? About 70% of what a T31e can do at 25% of the cost and manpower. With some very modest (a few £ millions)upgrades to sensors, weapons and off board systems, could be 80% of what a T31e could do. As @Donald-san points out, having permanent presence like the Echos have done gives s...

Tempest414 wrote:The B2 Rivers really are good looking ships

Would look even better with a 57mm gun

Then we to be realistic and we need to start moving kit around to even out what we have and use what money there is to the best effect... I agree to the principle, but it’s more than just moving kit around it’s about focused procurement on the new kit that fits a strategy that fits the budget. What...

Is 12 CAMM sufficient to defend itself to any meaningful extent in a non-binding environment? Isnt that basically enough (maybe) to hold off one salvo from either 1 aircraft or maybe 1 surface combatant (if you're lucky)? Probably not by itself, but with other countermeasures and closer self defenc...

Tempest414 wrote:... I am not planning on cut a dam thing more telling HMG to pull it head out of it ass

And what if it doesn’t (given the massive economic shock and focus on NHS caused by Coronavirus), which is very likely?

Well I feel type 31 should be a true GP frigate capable of singleton operations and for me this means it should be fitted with HMS 24 CAMM and 8 SSGW's plus as said before there should six of them this would allow the rest of the fleet to train and deploy as needed. In my mind we are so close with ...

It's not intended to. It'll replace the T23GPs. Which do a lot of other things than littoral ASW - as the T31 will. I’m sure the T31 can do the global forward based bit - question is whether we can afford it or should prioritise it without further funding. As I say the five are ordered, but unless ...

But lets also not kid our self that a batch 2 River or any form of can be upgraded to any level of frigate I’ve never thought that - what I see is a solid role for a MHPC which “could” be based on the River class. It’s role would be a MCM, Surveying, Surveillance and I’d add ASW (for the “active pi...

what dose a type 26 have that makes it the only frigate we can send ? Full spectrum of ASW, AAW, ASuW weapons and countermeasures plus hull quietening/stealth. Only even a few of these exist (and will only exist for the RN) even in a glossy T31 sales brochure. To operate in the Barents Sea needs a ...

Yes - you would. Which is why I get somewhat impatient with the "if it hasn't got a tail, it's not a real frigate" brigade. ASW comes in a number of flavours, all of which have their uses in the right circumstances. Agree, but this is where I get impatient with “that for it to be a ASW sh...

SW1 wrote:By littoral asw I take it you mean looking for conventional ssk submarines?

Edit: completely misread the quote - sorry

bring the submarine tender back :idea: We have SD Northern River. The planned numbers of T-31s come at the same cost, but I doubt the value (beyond littoral ASW, where active pinging takes away the benefits of v expensive silencing) Agreed and you don’t need a £300mn ship to do this - there are alr...

where are "the boats" in this; even without the Boomers? the categories were only for surface ships only. Surely 6 ASW frigates isn't sufficient? they aren’t. As per my comment above, you’d either need to drop CASD or a carrier. Also, people are getting confused - the RN needs about 3 dep...

My guess is that more cuts are coming and we are unlikely to see all 8 of the ASW T26s, the last two are likely to 're-spec'd' as the first two T45 replacements, if you look at the dates above the timing in the BAE building rate looks just about right for that. If we are lucky some of the money sav...

The French Navy in 2019 changed its naval nomenclature to split all surface ships into three main categories: - Combatants with strong offensive capabilities (inc CVNs, LHDs, LPDs and FFs) - Ships used for patrol and surveillance missions - Ships assigned you a specific purpose (Support & MCMs) ...

Scimitar54 , completely agree with the sentiment but have no faith in it coming true soon - the public is more interested in the NHS than our armed forces having a global capability (maybe rightly so). As such, we should be clear - no more money is coming ; at best the government will keep 2019 lev...

With the current planned schedule the low point of ASW frigates in service will be 2036 with a strength of five. All the Type 23s will have been decommissioned (last one HMS St.Albans in 2035) but only 5 of the Type 26s will have entered service with the next HMS Newcastle commissioning in 2037. If...

What is your calculation, with the known paying-off schedule for the T23 ASW and the 3+2 T26s ... when will we be at the lowest? And further, as the most potent ASW platform we have is the SSN; how do these two things come together (before all the 'add ons') I haven’t calculated the number of ASW p...

I know people do not like BAE, but I really don’t get the line of thought that by getting a base T31e and doubling it’s cost by adding a few bells and whistles will somehow build a cheap T26. The reason why the T26 is now primarily an ASW platform is that we need eight T26s and we need at least 8 AS...

Tbenz , possibly but we’ve decided to forgo a ninth T26 and equipping both the T26 & T45 properly for the pipe dream of a cheap (IMO half-arsed paper) Frigate. We could have got additional strike VLS for the T45 and upgrades to the radar for the T26 for the price of the T31, plus have some mone...