It’s a question of priorities: 1- More P8, ideally increase to 16 2- Maximise T31 and build 8 3- More SSN, aim for 12, start asap 4- More T26 only if HMG commits to 3% GDP 5- T32 but not before mid/late 2030s In that order IMO In a perfect world the optimum escort mix is: • 12x AAW Destroyers (T45/T...

inch wrote: ↑12 Apr 2024, 10:19 Will France join pillar 2 also ?

If it gets too big it will fall apart.

You forgot the £100 for them to get a Hogwarts magic wand :D It’s easy to be cynical Ron but would it be more straightforward than what USN is attempting with Constellation? • The forward 32x cell silo would take some substantial re-design. • The addition of hybrid propulsion would take some substa...

We do not need more compromised frigates for the RN - we have been here before I am not convinced so no point dragging this out further. The examples I have given are just to illustrate a simple point: If extra £Billions became available RN needs many other things funded before extra T26. The T31 a...

The threat to Australia and the region is not going to be solved by GP assets with compromised ASW capabilities. The threat to Australia will be solved by SSNs and lots of F35. IMO the Canberras could ultimately be more useful than the Hunters. No I don’t, no two more will not cost £1bn each, and y...

Repulse wrote: ↑11 Apr 2024, 09:38 Yes, 100%.

Why?

Well someone should have told the T31 design team that.

You are clearly not a fan of the T31.

If T26 hulls 9 &10 cost £1bn each is it really the best use of the cash if the U.K. wants additional ASW capability?

Any illusion that build a new “cheaper” (read compromised) class in a multi-national program and it will be a success is just that, an illusion - albeit sadly one that the Treasury will believe. Are you suggesting the Australians have got it completely wrong with their smaller, more numerous ASW ve...

The only way this has a chance IMO is that this class is the only new one in the 2030s. If the Albions are not to return the replacements are needed now. The luxury of everything being needed a decade away is over for the foreseeable. How much money is going to be pissed away on endless concepts an...

I'm afraid Rosyth does not have the capability to design a new escort. They have never done any. T31 design was bought from Denmark. T31-mod can be, but I'm afraid they do not know how to make it ASW-quiet enough. Babcock doesn’t need to design anything. A partnership with BMT could continue the de...

It’s a fair point, but the last thing we need is another class of ASW frigate I’m not suggesting it’s the best direction of travel but the benefits are clear. • A joint £5bn program with a NATO member to produce 10x next-gen GP Frigates optimised for off-board systems including ASW. • Rosyth is sec...

It’s a MINIMUM of 5 Frigates. Ok, but you don’t write that unless the discussion starts with can five ships meet the requirement. I am not arguing just stating if it is 5x or more T26, when could BAE hope to deliver them and not impact the RN schedule? Conversely, if it was 5x or more ASW optimised...

The fact that Norway has increased significantly its budget but still aims for five frigates to me suggests they are aiming for quality, so the T26 should be in pole position. It’s a MINIMUM of 5 Frigates. “A strong maritime package: The Navy will get a minimum of five new frigates with anti-submar...

Even with the substantial hike in defence spending, is the Royal Norwegian Navy realistically going to be able to afford 5 x T26? It seems to me that it might be worth them considering either a 2 + 3 or a 3 + 2 mix with T31. Alternatively, 5 x FREMM or similar. What isn’t clear is what would 5x T26...

I think your scale and mine in each of these brackets is very very different. The top and bottom would be much much smaller than yours and middle similar…. The scale that I propose is in recognition of the possibility of a peer on peer clash and the inevitable attrition that would follow. It would ...

The T32 is a complete distraction from the fundamental priority of adding mass back into the fleet. That is literally the purpose of the programme. To add mass by introducing a third class of Frigate when two classes are currently under construction? When was the last time RN had 3 classes of Friga...

Another waste of money, 4M to be precise. Just build a batch 2 T31. If the T32 budget is around £2.5bn including GFE another 5x T31 isn’t necessarily the right approach. A mixed procurement of 2x T26 @ £875m unit plus 2x (ideally 3x) T31 at £375m unit costs the same amount. The T32 is a complete di...

They already are doing your first point. The armed forces are regularly exercising in the area and maintaining various commitments in the JEF area. Completely agree but what if the exercise lasted 6 months or one year? It’s easy to frame an exercise around what you know you can achieve. The logisti...

jedibeeftrix wrote: ↑09 Apr 2024, 15:11 i wonder if Canada really fits into Aukus….

I wonder if Canada can afford to fit into AUKUS?

If you’re saying the army has too many unsupported light infantry units yes it does if it’s serious about being a warfighting force against high end opponents. Exactly. What I am suggesting is a structure that works for what the Army can contribute today. The Army is currently planning to rebuild o...

Another member? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/08/canada-justin-trudeau/. Canada could join Aukus defence pact as Trudeau considers nuclear sub patrols in Arctic waters…….The Canadian prime minister says he has already held ‘excellent conversations’ with the US, UK and Australia over...

If this is the lesson we need to heed then surely we should be significantly expanding our current supporting arms just to support the current units we have or make them significantly logistically lighter or both. Considering the amount of light Infantry the British Army has available is it possibl...

Moved across. For me as said Army can have 3 Divisions with 9 Brigades 1st Division with 3 Light Mech brigades 3rd Division with 2 x Combined armed brigades 6th Division with 16AA , Rangers , 11th SFA , SF brigade The key will be the 3 Light Mech Brigades and what vehicles they have for me one of th...

Lots of sense here. The frustration with a lack of progress is palpable. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/06/britain-is-not-ready-for-war-ministers-defence-mod/. Britain is not ready for war – ministers couldn’t even turn up to the bunker….Defence readiness should be a whole-of-government ex...

At the risk of being pedantic 'too much and not enough ' seems to be a judgement about perceived value for money rather than compromise. I'm not clear how they're 'compromised'? In my opinion they are too much (over spec’d) for EEZ patrol and not enough for global patrol as there is too much they c...

new guy wrote: ↑06 Apr 2024, 20:22

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑06 Apr 2024, 18:55
They are a compromised platform for global patrol and always will be unfortunately.

Compromised how?

They are too much and not enough.