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by Repulse
25 Sep 2023, 14:15
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

. Need for B1 reps? Those are capable of operating in and traversing oceans, should these be able to take there role or displaced OPV's/GPV's? . How do they fit into the RN. . Ignoring beaching capability for a moment, essencially a smaller GPV? Say the GPV has a larger work deck, merlin capable fl...
by Repulse
24 Sep 2023, 20:24
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Could you help define the role more? Constabulary? RM roles? Overlap with OPV? one the comment of landing ship, this reminds me of something. The french have an idea for 4 Light Force Projection Ships: During the 2023 parliamentary review of the 2024-30 LPM, several amendments were adopted to add a...
by Repulse
24 Sep 2023, 09:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

As always a lot will depend on the requirements, some of which are still be validated as part of the RN POD experimentation and FCF exercises. Also, kit such as UUVs are still in their infancy. However we already have the Sea Class, so I’m thinking primarily in the 40-80m range (like Patrick Blacke...
by Repulse
23 Sep 2023, 19:11
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Lower end yes, but also larger 40-60m ships. The Littoral area is going to be key so a multi role ship that can not only act in a patrol role, but also act as a MCM / ASW USV / UUV mothership, options to act as a small RM forward base and move supplies for HADR. Keep it cheap, perhaps a derivatives...
by Repulse
23 Sep 2023, 17:53
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Inshore Patrol Ships New role you invision the navy needing? I think we are talking Archer Class replacement. Personally I would like to see the URNU task taken over by 15 or 18m SEA-class vessels with training modules (or perhaps even 20m RhIBs, as used by the Border Force) and a larger inshore pa...
by Repulse
23 Sep 2023, 12:30
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

…costs are unlikely to be flat… In which case one of the three yards will go bust. The drumbeat works both ways, money in, ships out. You can make it as complicated as you want but in the simplest terms, if you don’t feed the shipbuilding industry there will very quickly be no industry to feed. Com...
by Repulse
23 Sep 2023, 08:16
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

The MRSS budget is only £1.5bn if you choose to set it at that level. Many other options are perfectly plausible and affordable. The first steel for the first FSS is due to be cut in 2025 and the last ship to be commissioned in 2032 - obviously costs are unlikely to be flat but I believe it is fair...
by Repulse
22 Sep 2023, 11:58
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 5030
Views: 1210464
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

shark bait wrote: 22 Sep 2023, 08:04 The legacy MCM fleet has no usable patrol capability, it's a token gesture.
It not optimal and restricted to near shore, but it’s plainly not nothing. The patrol role for close in UK waters is fairly straightforward, a radar, trained crew, ability to launch a boat and a gun about covers it.
by Repulse
22 Sep 2023, 08:03
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 5030
Views: 1210464
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

shark bait wrote: 22 Sep 2023, 08:01 Linking new autonomous mine hunters and a requirement for extra patrol boats is tenuous at best.
Why? The MCMs always had a secondary patrol role.
by Repulse
21 Sep 2023, 12:55
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Caribbean wrote: 21 Sep 2023, 12:42
Repulse wrote: 21 Sep 2023, 12:29 cheap OPV vessel (my preference),
Based on - not built completely to civilian standards, however. Capable of escorting tankers in the Gulf, for instance.
Absolutely - “relatively” cheap I should say.
by Repulse
21 Sep 2023, 12:29
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Basically - all budgets are dirrerent and driven by the actual requirements Obviously - but the big budget does not, and given defence inflation, needs of the other services, and priorities elsewhere for government spending the RN has to make space for whatever budget. So I stick by my baseline, un...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2023, 11:14
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

It is a £2-£2.5bn programme, but there isn’t a £2-£2.5bn budget. How can you have a budget before the concept has been finalised? Just because there isn't a budget now doesn't mean the money is not available. It just isn't allocated yet Fair - you can have a £2.5bn budget, what are you going to cut...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2023, 08:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

This is a repetitive discussion, but I’ll do my best to summarise my view of what should happen when the government and RN finally admit their funding , aspirations and plans are incompatible. What is RN’s range? Six MRSS is at the very least a £2bn programme. Much more realistic to expect £2.5bn to...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 21:22
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Depends on your definition of suboptimal. For a LHD how many F35 is optimal? Most LHD use their vehicle decks as hangars and have less capable aviation support / ammunition storage capabilities. Given the price point that would even be remotely in the RNs range (sacrificing other things) realistica...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 21:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 5030
Views: 1210464
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

I thought that that was what you where arging with me in a previous argument, about B1 replacements? I’ll need to find the context, I believe I’ve been consistent in my view. amphib thread. This bit? 3) T31's (Originally T26) is to replace the T23GP's. It’s not about what they replaced, it’s about ...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 20:07
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

What’s in your view the difference? Sorry, a bit confused - you seem to be saying a LHA is a CVF with fewer aircraft or groups of aircraft of different types - the 2 carriers we have can and will do that. You then go on to say a LHD could be a LHA - it could but it would be sub optimal. I was expec...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 19:57
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 5030
Views: 1210464
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

I thought that that was what you where arging with me in a previous argument, about B1 replacements? I’ll need to find the context, I believe I’ve been consistent in my view. amphib thread. This bit? 3) T31's (Originally T26) is to replace the T23GP's. It’s not about what they replaced, it’s about ...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 17:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

SW1 wrote: 20 Sep 2023, 15:43 …it just a discussion.
Completely agree with the thrust of your point, but would only point out that this is a discussion thread :D
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 16:37
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 5030
Views: 1210464
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

new guy wrote: 20 Sep 2023, 15:55 I just point out the utter spiel that Nicholas Drummond is spitting.
Absolutely - he’s not renowned for his knowledge and sense when it comes to the Navy.
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 16:36
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 5030
Views: 1210464
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

new guy wrote: 20 Sep 2023, 15:49 I thought that that was what you where arging with me in a previous argument, about B1 replacements?
I’ll need to find the context, I believe I’ve been consistent in my view.
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 15:28
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

The RN can have a carrier group or a couple of amphibious oriented groups it can’t resource both and do all the other more important stuff. What’s the priority? That’s the main point. If RN really believes that CEPP is the future then is the 3rd Flat top more important than 6x MRSS? Well it’s chose...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 13:57
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

It’s not about just landing stuff over a beach. Do I need to move multiple small craft manned or unmanned to other locations and operate and support them, if so the best way currently to do that is with a dock. If you don’t so be it if, but I think we will. It’s a fair point and in the past I’ve se...
by Repulse
20 Sep 2023, 12:24
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 4897
Views: 991974
United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

The real need lays with the term global we need to take our kit anywhere we think we need it not just across the North sea and support it with CEPP It’s a conscious choice. Is it a priority to land kit over a beach / coast (that cannot be carried by helicopter) outside of Norway? HADR is possibly o...