I said a T45 was needed here as the primary threat is from missiles and UAVs - that’s exactly what we have now. The Red Sea is a tasking for relatively cheap choke point escorts in numbers as is Hormuz etc. RN don’t have enough T45 to be wasting precious assets on flash points. They need to concent...

The T31 fans here implicitly support this view because most of their arguments involve mythical T31+'s that have had oodles of extra money spent on them. They are no more mythical than extra T26 at this stage. Virtually no one has been more critical of the T31 than I have with the endless missed op...

Two or three T31 for the same £1bn depending on how they are configured would add a lot more. Such a cheap T31, 330 GBP a pop, cannot do any good AAW. Are you suggesting that the T26 will be a more accomplished choke point AAW Frigate than a T31 if they both embarked the same number of CAMM? Why?

You have to plan with the budgets / people you have not what you wish for. That statement doesn’t exactly help your argument for more unfunded T26. We can see that instability already - there are two large competing global pacts now with a sizeable third group of countries such as India sitting on ...

- Do you accept that the RN surface fleet has never been so small and that every vessel capabilities count? Yes - Do you accept that the proliferation of sophisticated weaponry has never been so wide? Yes - Do you accept that money and crewing issues means more of the same is not sustainable? The c...

sol wrote: ↑18 Apr 2024, 08:15 ….it would impact deliveries for RN, and might cause some capability gap….

If two NATO members are combining to replace their ASW Frigates with a bleeding edge top level capability if any temporary gap occurs is it not NATO’s responsibility to fill it?

Repulse wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 22:12 Buy the right ships for the job, don’t do it half arsed and don’t pretend buying even more of the same is an answer.

Do you accept that there is no historical precedent in the Royal Navy for what you are insisting is the only way forward?

Shock horror what about some SM6 to go in the Mk41 VLS rather than Aster which don't.* You want to add SM6 to the T31 at almost $5m a missile? Seems unlikely. Not specifically T31, T26 too if we want hypersonic and ballistic on them. What would be cheaper buying from Raytheon or getting MBDA France...

tomuk wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 19:38 Shock horror what about some SM6 to go in the Mk41 VLS rather than Aster which don't.*

You want to add SM6 to the T31 at almost $5m a missile?

Seems unlikely.

….If it is mini-sub in Persian Gulf, how about several dozens of slowish UUVs and USVs with active VDS + TASS, with Sat-Com? If it is in a confined water, emerging UUV/USV technology is a bigger threat against submarine much more than a surface vessel. Sounds like a larger deployment than even a T3...

SW1 wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 16:34 An interesting graphic

Very interesting.

Another one for the Nordics may be even more revealing.

SW1 wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 17:13

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 17:12

SW1 wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 14:53 Skis on a light gun

Low cost solution. Great.

I wonder if you could attach it to a skidoo

Low friction so moving it isn’t hard.

Tackling the slopes and employing effective breaking downhill may be problematic.

SW1 wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 14:53 Skis on a light gun

Low cost solution. Great.

The Iranians have a significant fleet of mini-subs which have really tested the Royal Navy. Agreed the threat is clear. Also UUVs will proliferate further and become a growing threat. What is needed to counter that? Is it a T26 or more likely something deployed from a T31 or T32. A Captas 2 or 4 in...

I would have thought the Falkland & West Indies Guard ships do an important job, replacing escorts in both APT(N) & APT(S). Arguably, there should have been one based in Gib for many years, to perform a similar task in the Med and along the West African coast, again a job that doesn't need ...

You will simply dismiss them as you don’t wish to do them and so the argument will go around in a circle. As an effort to move the debate on. Simple question for anyone that feels like answering. What could a T26 with 48x CAMM in mushrooms and 24x MK41 Strike cells do better than a T31 with 32x Mk4...

Markam wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024, 14:27 Maritime centric strategy.

How do you see that working?

The £11bn for all 13 was let slip by an Admiral back in 2014. The only relevant thing now is what an additional batch would cost. Adjusted for inflation the cost of the last batch of 5 is now £920m. Just with average inflation that cost will rise by £30m-£40m per annum. They are a £1bn Frigate now ...

It's been stated time and time again. What has been stated? Apart from lots of empty announcements and endless criticism of the current incumbents nothing approaching a clear vision for the future of the country has emerged yet. The cash raised from the non-doms appears to have been allocated to mu...

14 years of Tory austerity and "there's a lot of money that could be moved around". Are you aware of the state of local authorities going bankrupt? The NHS is funding disarray? Schools falling apart? The state of the roads? The lack of big infrastructure projects? Tell me about about Labo...

Rome wasn't built in a day it takes time to rebuild capability, Cammells/A&P would love the work if it is at no risk to them, SDA virtually bankrupted them again. A bit of subbing is fine, but the risk goes up the bigger the blocks are. As for Fergusons I wouldn't touch that dumpster fire with ...

Because the public accounts are FUBAR….. It’s not that simple. HMG has little fiscal headroom because it is choosing not to reallocate funding to different priority areas. UK GDP is now more than £2.2Trillion. Government spending equates to around 45% of that figure. That’s a lot of money that coul...

We will have a smaller fleet of specialists and potiential a larger group of all rounders in the middle. No sure that’s adequate. If funding remains roughly static a more balanced approach is the likely outcome IMO. - 8x T45/T83 - 8x T26 - 8x T31/T32 The cruiser idea for makes little sense for mult...

I fear you are right, because this comments on this thread seems to represent the wallcharts first requirements & strategy last approach that got us in this shit in the first place. I don’t understand why are not jumping for joy at the news? Surely an extra 5x T26 in the North Atlantic is what ...

You would need to overlook where the linage of commandos come from in 41 formed for the raids on the Norwegian and French coasts. Why start the clock in 1941? The commando raids and the invasion of Norway was all Britain could achieve at the time and Churchill wanted “action this day”. RM needs to ...