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by NickC
31 Jul 2021, 12:53
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Re the recent discussion whether you would classify the T31 as true frigate or as I would a flag waving presence 'frigate' for G and T parties on the flight deck, but not operationally survivable in a hot zone as so lightly armed. What reinforced my view was two recent posts on Naval News The first ...
by NickC
27 Jul 2021, 11:58
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Replies: 7104
Views: 1752251
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

FWIW i did ask the NAO if the Type 31e contract was awarded for the target price of £250 million per ship excluding the GFA, they replied to my question as a request under the FOI Act and said NO. "We can confirm that we hold information in scope of your request information on the contract cost...
by NickC
26 Jul 2021, 11:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Replies: 7104
Views: 1752251
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

The 17km/9.2nm range claimed only when gun barrel at 45 degrees and doubt it could hit a barn door due to gun errors and dispersion. Is it just me who thinks that hitting a barn door at 17km with an unguided projectile is actually quite impressive!? I think it would be a very, very big barn door an...
by NickC
25 Jul 2021, 12:55
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

It sounds drastic until you realise that 4/6 of them are undergoing routine work which has already been planned (and was the case before the CSG21 deployment). So the plan was to have 2 of only 6 Air Defence ships deployed with the CSG on the other side of the world with all the rest stuck in port ...
by NickC
25 Jul 2021, 12:46
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

It sounds drastic until you realise that 4/6 of them are undergoing routine work which has already been planned (and was the case before the CSG21 deployment). So the plan was to have 2 of only 6 Air Defence ships deployed with the CSG on the other side of the world with all the rest stuck in port ...
by NickC
22 Jul 2021, 11:51
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

Telegraph Only one of the Royal Navy’s Type 45 destroyers is operational, ministers have admitted. HMS Defender, recently at the centre of a diplomatic row with Russia following a voyage off the Crimean peninsula, is the only vessel of the class without an issue. The other five Type 45s all need wor...
by NickC
21 Jul 2021, 11:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

Following the T45 £500 million with majority funding MLU of its Aster 30s (Avio contract will also meet the Italian's Aster MLU requirement) Rome, 7th July 2021 - Avio S.p.A. (“Avio”) informs that it has received several extensions of the production orders by MBDA France S.A.S. for the production of...
by NickC
21 Jul 2021, 11:01
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

type 32 will be a reworked type 31 Which begs a question. If what RN really wants is a modified T31 why are five non-modified T31's currently on order? Another politically driven nonsensical decision to add to an ever increasing list. No not really the MOD and the RN know that Rosyth need to work u...
by NickC
19 Jul 2021, 11:36
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Replies: 7104
Views: 1752251
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1416388848851066891 The 17km/9.2nm range claimed only when gun barrel at 45 degrees and doubt it could hit a barn door due to gun errors and dispersion. The USN selected the L3 AlaMO smart projectile in preference to the BAE 57mmm ORKA-3P, remember seeing quot...
by NickC
17 Jul 2021, 11:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Fincantieri stand at Athens DEFA 2021 showing headline specs of their FREMM variant for the Greek frigate contest, competing against the Babcock Arrowhead A140 amongst others, of interest to note is they have changed the expensive/quiet electric HED CODLAG for a less costly CODOG propulsion system, ...
by NickC
16 Jul 2021, 15:39
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

If you want to be pedantic we know the average cost of the mid life update of the Aster missile is aprox £1 million per missile No you don't because you don't know how the contract money will be spent. There will be a considerable portion of it spent on things other than upgrading missiles. For exa...
by NickC
16 Jul 2021, 11:25
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

We know the contract for the mid life update of the near 1,000 Italian and UK Asters is 1.2 billion euros, approx £1 million each. Sigh. We certainly do not know that it costs one million per missile. Episode 86,301 in the continuing saga of dividing contract value by number of units. If you want t...
by NickC
15 Jul 2021, 18:28
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

Is it just me, or does the 1000 missile number seem very low. Even if 60% are UK, this only gives one re load per T45? We know the contract for the mid life update of the near 1,000 Italian and UK Asters is 1.2 billion euros, approx £1 million each. The MoD budget for the T45 is £500 million and th...
by NickC
15 Jul 2021, 09:19
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Naval News 13 minute video released yesterday, from DEFEA 2021 - Athens, showing the contenders for the Greek frigate contract, including the Babcock Arrowhead 140.

by NickC
14 Jul 2021, 11:01
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

9th July PR by Eurosam the Franco-Italian consortium producer of Asters - SAMP/T Mentions the half life upgrade for UK will be carried out at Defense Munitions, Gosport. The ASTER Block 1 NT (new technology) with a new seeker and a new computer capable of countering modern threats emerging. It will ...
by NickC
14 Jul 2021, 09:49
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 4548
Views: 1218368
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

As such, I do not think "ASW oriented" T26 will be as cheap of £500M. With 127mm gun replaced with 57 mm (not a big issue for ASW escort), and Mk.41 VLS reduced to 8-cell from 24, it will be more about a £600M figure. Donald-San, Mk41 VLS according to this FMS is about 20 million USD per ...
by NickC
11 Jul 2021, 11:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

How long could a T31 keep a cloud of shrapnel in the air at 2000 yards with its 40mm and 57mm? Would guess the Pk in stopping a Mach 2 plus two ton BrahMos or equivalent anti-ship missile 2 seconds away from impacting on ship might be 1%? Why does it need to do this? I haven't seen the OA but I'd e...
by NickC
09 Jul 2021, 15:49
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

4. Cost of upgrading aster 15's to Aster 30's: £0. It's the same missile with a different booster. Unless more boosters are acquired but that was not mentioned. Even making assumption that RN original buy of Asters and agreeing split of 15s and 30s they then went to the added expense of purchasing ...
by NickC
09 Jul 2021, 12:47
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

From similar standing point, I rather go to different conclusion. Great summary Donald, I enjoyed reading that. Your list of priorities is valid and I agree that if money was no object they should all happen but I simply place up-arming the T31 higher up the priority list. One of the reasons for th...
by NickC
09 Jul 2021, 09:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 1475
Views: 424846
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]

 OCCAR-EA, Organisation for Joint Armament Cooperation for European armament cooperation press release a few days ago, contract was signed early June, a few quotes IT & UK ASTER MID LIFE UPDATE PRODUCTION - SIGNATURE OF THE S&E CONTRACT AMENDMENT 8 On 05 July 2021, a ceremony was held in OCC...
by NickC
08 Jul 2021, 10:02
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Floence Parly, French Minister for the Armed Forces, tweeted they have successfully shot down a drone with a laser, no details given on size and speed of drone or at what range and weather conditions plus time taken to bring drone down. It has gone very quiet with no news for some time on progress w...
by NickC
07 Jul 2021, 10:08
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

One reason given was that the Type 31's were more capable than the Iver Huitfelds so would be more expensive to build. Why do they think the T31's are more capable? Because they weigh more. I swear you must have written the report yourself. Ron reverting to your Mr Nasty mode again, upset because i...
by NickC
06 Jul 2021, 16:13
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Just for info - the FY2022 $1,087.9 includes $132m Plan Costs, main driver the establishment of the Constellation Land Based Engineering Site, LBES, to test the propulsion system, ordered by Congress after the disasters with both LCS classes, the balance of $23m for Change Orders to establish techn...
by NickC
06 Jul 2021, 15:58
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

So yes the Fincantieri US shipyards who build the Constellation can compete on price with the Spanish yards, that should be no surprise as Fincantieri in the top tier of world ship builders, the Italian yards build cruise ships that sell world wide as well as navy ships, SD67 quoted Fincantieri FRE...
by NickC
06 Jul 2021, 15:46
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 13929
Views: 3163118
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

The crude metric often used to price ships is cost per ton and was used by PBO for the CSC Yes, and that lead them to conclude building a Type 31 to the exact same standard as the RN would cost 1 billion pounds each. Really good metric (eyes roll). Canada looks a horrendously expensive country to b...

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