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Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 11 Jan 2019, 23:12

Timmymagic wrote:Pity there isn't a wide angle of this without the dais. Tornado, Typhoon T3, F-35 and Tempest mockup together...

some poor sod had to polish that floor....


Image

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Lord Jim » 11 Jan 2019, 23:46

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Lord Jim wrote: But my point is still valid, the RAF really only has to worry about training personnel for forward as it should be backed up by industry at depth.

... and mine (,too)
- considering that "the industry" is mainly somewhere else when the F-35 overtakes the Tiffie as the backbone for the RAF fastjet force

topman wrote:
Lord Jim wrote:You're right, I keep forgetting depth is basically what was 2nd to 4th line whereas forward is what was 1st line. But my point is still valid, the RAF really only has to worry about training personnel for forward as it should be backed up by industry at depth.


don't forget that whoever they work for in depth they still need training and we don't pay that cost directly but it is something we need to understand the cost of.


I agree with both of the above, and brings into focus how much faith we have in the MoD's project management skills and how well funded these aspects are moving forward.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 Jan 2019, 04:57

I like that photo.

Forgetting the past (strike/ interdiction Tornado on the RHS and the undefined future on the LHS), what is the msg in the primary A2A platform shown with strike weapons and the primary strike platform shown with A2A weapons?
- that the pair, together, can do anything (we'll get there, to a balanced fleet, sometime in the '30s)
- and in the meantime, each - on their own - can do 'anything'?

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Lord Jim » 12 Jan 2019, 13:31

I think the MoD needs to be a bit careful regarding the increasing number of research projects it is funding. We need to do a certain amount but it seems that because we are where we are, the people at the top are becoming obsessed with finding some wonder systems that will make everything all right again. £100M here and another there soon mounts up. Think about it the funds of five such project would sort out the woes of the T-31 programme of spent there instead. So yes we need to continue to look to new technologies, but we mustn't start investing in every scheme that someone may suggest.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Simon82 » 12 Jan 2019, 13:48

Stormshadow certainly would have been a very big lump to hang under an F-35 wing! I believe that particular plan has been abandoned now though.

Would have been interesting to see one leaving the aircraft carrier’s ski jump carrying a pair of Stormshadow though. I guess SRVL would have been essential for returning with a load like that after an aborted mission!

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 Jan 2019, 16:44

Lord Jim wrote:o yes we need to continue to look to new technologies, but we mustn't start investing in every scheme that someone may suggest.


I think we may have got it right, for once, in that
- PYRAMID is a must have, so that the MoD can orchestrate the various tech initiatives (try out, test, slot in rather than "integrate" which has been famously expensive
- and the rest of the prgrm mainly carried at companies' risk.

Of course we don't have the break-down of the gvmnt part of the funding (nor the sum total, for all), but let's say this is the ideal picture drawn and 5-10 yrs down the road we can colour it
- or cross it over, if it proved not to be the case at all

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 Jan 2019, 18:04

Simon82 wrote:Stormshadow certainly would have been a very big lump to hang under an F-35 wing! I believe that particular plan has been abandoned now though.


Storm Shadow and Brimstone integration on F-35 were abandoned over 4 years ago. Makes sense as SPEAR can carry out the Brimstone mission, albeit its larger and more expensive. Storm Shadow is OOS by 2030 meaning that integration as part for F-35 block 4 would have given it a service live of 4-5 years max.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby shark bait » 15 Jan 2019, 08:29

and neither of those fit on the inside, so no real loss.
@LandSharkUK

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 Jan 2019, 09:31

shark bait wrote:so no real loss.

I agree. Considering what weapons will be integrated on our F-35s we should, however, stop listing them as CAS assets (just for the reason that they serve that purpose for the USMC).

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Lord Jim » 15 Jan 2019, 13:08

The role the F-35B actually has with the UK Armed Forces is going to have an interesting journey of discovery. With the JHF it was easy as the role was basically the same for both the RAF and FAA, but with the F-35 the FAA is going to have different requirements compared to eh RAF, fleet aid defence for one. The training plan for aircrew is going to be a lot more varied and will it encompass all possible roles for will it concentrate on Carrier operations and the needs of the FAA?


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