Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
The government being embarrassed and having red faces, you have got to be joking . All politicians have got skins thicker than a bloody rhinoceros.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Tbh you do have a valid and justified point therejonas wrote:The government being embarrassed and having red faces, you have got to be joking . All politicians have got skins thicker than a bloody rhinoceros.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Tinman wrote:Re-badged USN or they give up slots on the production line, Seedcorn crews come home Stand up an OCU Late 2016 early 2017?downsizer wrote:It can be done much sooner than 2020.
how long will it take to train and certify the engineers, have all the support services and facilities in place. Produce RAF standard manuals, maintence schedules, courses, policy, doctrine etc etc. Its not as simple as there is the aircraft crack on. They will also need certification, trials and evaluation. Plus make some modifications to fit into the RAF.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
All depends on whose RTS they are operated on and certified by. Also why we have IOC and FOC. If we wanted we could have some capability very soon. But you know best mate, you've proved your Air knowledge again and again.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
marktigger wrote:Tinman wrote:Re-badged USN or they give up slots on the production line, Seedcorn crews come home Stand up an OCU Late 2016 early 2017?downsizer wrote:It can be done much sooner than 2020.
how long will it take to train and certify the engineers, have all the support services and facilities in place. Produce RAF standard manuals, maintence schedules, courses, policy, doctrine etc etc. Its not as simple as there is the aircraft crack on. They will also need certification, trials and evaluation. Plus make some modifications to fit into the RAF.
Air seeker and C17 are operated on American RTS, hence why the Growbags C17 crews wear are different, as we would have had to pay for the clearance etc, similarly why we don't do Parachute ops from them. As for Engineers and servicing we would no doubt buy into USN maintenance schedules and training. Also you will see USN weapons used not UK.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
fine so we base our maritime patrol fleet in the united states and spain so they can get first line servicing and have access to engineering facilities, simulators etc?
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
It won't be based in the US or Spain and first line maintenance will be done by RAF and probably some RN personnel.
- cockneyjock1974
- Member
- Posts: 537
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 09:43
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
I had a feeling that MPA would become joint forced manned and operated (if and when we buy/lease it). Makes sense what with today's personnel numbers. Unless the RN were always involved with Nimrod, I simply don't know.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
so those people can be taken straight of other types, and given a new aircraft with new engines and systems and it be up and running in 6 months? I don't think so and look at airseekers passage through the military aircraft cetification process alone yes P8 will be quicker because its new but it will still take time. so 3-5 years is a fairly good timescale.downsizer wrote:It won't be based in the US or Spain and first line maintenance will be done by RAF and probably some RN personnel.
- cockneyjock1974
- Member
- Posts: 537
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 09:43
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Who said 6 months? Not me. It can be done quicker with an IOC quicker than 3-5 years for sure. If I was a betting man, and it gets the go-ahead, we could even see UK frames as soon as late 16, early 17.marktigger wrote:so those people can be taken straight of other types, and given a new aircraft with new engines and systems and it be up and running in 6 months? I don't think so and look at airseekers passage through the military aircraft cetification process alone yes P8 will be quicker because its new but it will still take time. so 3-5 years is a fairly good timescale.downsizer wrote:It won't be based in the US or Spain and first line maintenance will be done by RAF and probably some RN personnel.
But then your decades of experience working in this field and the air environment probably say otherwise right?
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
downsizer wrote:Who said 6 months? Not me. It can be done quicker with an IOC quicker than 3-5 years for sure. If I was a betting man, and it gets the go-ahead, we could even see UK frames as soon as late 16, early 17.marktigger wrote:so those people can be taken straight of other types, and given a new aircraft with new engines and systems and it be up and running in 6 months? I don't think so and look at airseekers passage through the military aircraft cetification process alone yes P8 will be quicker because its new but it will still take time. so 3-5 years is a fairly good timescale.downsizer wrote:It won't be based in the US or Spain and first line maintenance will be done by RAF and probably some RN personnel.
But then your decades of experience working in this field and the air environment probably say otherwise right?
Whats marktiggers experience?
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
I would agree we could have airframes in the UK 16-17 but not on operations, tests, trials and training but not released to service. so would we need all the seedcorn people back in 16-17?
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
You ever heard of sarcasm ?Tinman wrote:downsizer wrote:Who said 6 months? Not me. It can be done quicker with an IOC quicker than 3-5 years for sure. If I was a betting man, and it gets the go-ahead, we could even see UK frames as soon as late 16, early 17.marktigger wrote:so those people can be taken straight of other types, and given a new aircraft with new engines and systems and it be up and running in 6 months? I don't think so and look at airseekers passage through the military aircraft cetification process alone yes P8 will be quicker because its new but it will still take time. so 3-5 years is a fairly good timescale.downsizer wrote:It won't be based in the US or Spain and first line maintenance will be done by RAF and probably some RN personnel.
But then your decades of experience working in this field and the air environment probably say otherwise right?
Whats marktiggers experience?
- The Armchair Soldier
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1756
- Joined: 29 Apr 2015, 08:31
- Contact:
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
An MPA will be sought in the SDSR according to the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -sdsr-2015
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -sdsr-2015
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
But no shoe-in for the P8. Competition = obfuscation and delay.
- CR4ZYHOR5E
- Member
- Posts: 76
- Joined: 02 May 2015, 10:57
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Guardian article seems to indicate a competitative/selection process which IMO is only a marginal improvement over the current situation and offers little hope that the capability gap will be plugged anytime soon.
The government making noises such like 'we will look at options to regenerate MPA capability' is code for 'we can't really afford to do this but lets be seen to be doing something'. My god its like the Airports Commission...
The government making noises such like 'we will look at options to regenerate MPA capability' is code for 'we can't really afford to do this but lets be seen to be doing something'. My god its like the Airports Commission...
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
I notice that unfortunately this article seems to corroborate the previously reported stuff about P-8 not being a done deal.The Armchair Soldier wrote:An MPA will be sought in the SDSR according to the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -sdsr-2015
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Well that's that done and dusted then. The 'Guardian' has always been at the cutting edge of defence reporting. This story on future MPA has been doing the rounds for some time now, the article seems to be going along with the leaks from 'defence sources' that others have posted before.
Never mind, not long to go now.
Never mind, not long to go now.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Fortunately.Pseudo wrote: I notice that unfortunately this article seems to corroborate the previously reported stuff about P-8 not being a done deal.
Much as I want an MPA asap, just buying the P8 for, well what reason? Because our trans-atlantic cousins build it? I think we have to recognise the financial circumstances and accept there's going to be a compromise between quality, quantity and cost.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
malcrf wrote:Fortunately.Pseudo wrote: I notice that unfortunately this article seems to corroborate the previously reported stuff about P-8 not being a done deal.
Much as I want an MPA asap, just buying the P8 for, well what reason? Because our trans-atlantic cousins build it?
No, because as has been amply demonstrated over the past five years our geographic location means that it's one area that we can't really afford to settle for a second or third best solution.
I think that recognising the financial circumstances would mean not committing to buy F-35 in numbers that we probably won't need until Typhoon comes to the end of its service, not comprising on a requirement that we absolutely do need.I think we have to recognise the financial circumstances and accept there's going to be a compromise between quality, quantity and cost.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Our defence of the realm is not based on, "Well, the U.S. has them and so should we."
Admin Note: This user is banned after turning most of their old posts into spam. This is why you may see their posts containing nothing more than dots or symbols. We have decided to keep these posts in place as it shows where they once were and why other users may be replying to things no longer visible in the topic. We apologise for any inconvenience.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
There is no real easy answer to this problem, we run a Competition and need to wait even longer for the MPA to become available and if we buy off the shelf we might get shafted on price
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Sure as hell seems like it sometimes though.arfah wrote:Our defence of the realm is not based on, "Well, the U.S. has them and so should we."
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
I might be misremembering, but wasn't their some deal on the table to join the US in a block purchase and take advantage of some savings there?Jdam wrote:There is no real easy answer to this problem, we run a Competition and need to wait even longer for the MPA to become available and if we buy off the shelf we might get shafted on price