Section Infantry Weapons

[ArmChairCivvy]

Yes it can be used by lefties (I should have shown conversion), I used a Beretta ARX bolt, but unlike the ARX160 (which needs a bullet), you just push a button on side of stock to change direction, then move ejection port covers as required.

V impressive (not just the design but also the presentation). In addition to yr own suggestion above, I would
- mention the tool (is it a tool, or a part?) used in field strip
- mention the rails (above and under), e.g. what kind of sight would come naturally at the right distance from the eye (OK, there are butt adjustments) and what could be attached under the barrel - it looks like there is a rail, but all shots are from the side w/o an angle so not sure

How do you get MOAs for something that has not been built (yet)?

[Little J]

Thanks for the suggestions,
The "tool" used in full disassembly is the rim of a cartridge (the idea is the screw wouldn't be under tension, so wouldn't damage the case). I wanted to show it in close up but couldn't get the animation right.
The rails would be to 1913 std at 12 and 6 o'clock with mlok on sides (for lightness).

Moa is out of hope more than anything
Achieving it with the AUG style barrel connection I used would probably be impossible

Again, thank you for your feedback, I will try to incorporate the changes in a mk.2 video.

[Antipod]

Nice work Little J! Next step is to line up some venture capital and build a factory in Birmingham, what?
Particularly like the nod to the De Lisle carbine! Have you illustrated a long-barreled marksman or support version?

[ArmChairCivvy]

A challenge:
Kalashnikov produced a model that shoots a two round burst as a single shot (aim point is not supposed to move as they come out so fast and the round - 5.45x39 (7N10) - has very soft recoil).

It was not widely adopted as the extra parts were considered to add too much complication for field care (hesitate calling stripping & oiling maintenance) and also weight.

Self-lubrication (materials?) in ARs have since taken great strides, so may be you want to add such a version
- at least u-tube hits would go through the roof!

[Little J]

Nice work Little J! Next step is to line up some venture capital and build a factory in Birmingham, what?
Particularly like the nod to the De Lisle carbine! Have you illustrated a long-barreled marksman or support version?

Thank you, don't think I'd really care where it was made, I'd just be happy to see someone make it! On my computer the designs are in a file named Stirling

My original 2d sketch's had a 24 inch barrelled DMR (no LSW, think belt feeds are better for that) and like the FN SCAR I also drew a "Heavy" version, but it never got to the 3d stage.
It does open the question to those who would use them: -A as standard with option to use -C (as video says), or use -C as standard with the -A in a DMR Light role? With the advent of M855 A1 and the UK equivalent (L31A1?) I'm thinking the second
option would appeal more (troops would get a rifle roughly the size of the Yanks mk.18).

A challenge:
Kalashnikov produced a model that shoots a two round burst as a single shot (aim point is not supposed to move as they come out so fast and the round - 5.45x39 (7N10) - has very soft recoil).

It was not widely adopted as the extra parts were considered to add too much complication for field care (hesitate calling stripping & oiling maintenance) and also weight.

Self-lubrication (materials?) in ARs have since taken great strides, so may be you want to add such a version
- at least u-tube hits would go through the roof!

If I'm thinking of the right rifle, the mag well had to move as well as the working parts? That sounds waayyyy beyond my noob abilities.... I'm only a bored fork-lift driver after all

[ArmChairCivvy]

mag well had to move as well as the working parts?

I think that was what determined the burst of two - as opposed to the US sponsored fletched gun projects, in which the burst was three
... however, this one uses general-use ammo, which makes it "real". There no reason why all the sidearms issued to the different echelon troops would not/ could not use the same round. Each squad would need to have at least two DMR, though, with a heavier round (that would then fit all MGs, below .50 cal.

[Little J]

Ok, I've changed a few bit's on the video, hopefully the design points are getting across clearer now.

I asked earlier, but never really got an answer and the wider context for this thread seems appropriate...
If you had the choice what would you have as a primary weapon, a 20 inch barrelled -A or a 16 inch barrelled -C? Would the small increase in manoeuvrability be worth the small loss in velocity... Then using the -A as a DMR-Light?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Ok, I've changed a few bit's on the video (I've also changed the link above), hopefully the design points are getting across clearer now.

I asked earlier, but never really got an answer and the wider context for this thread seems appropriate...
If you had the choice what would you have as a primary weapon, a 20 inch barrelled -A or a 16 inch barrelled -C? Would the small increase in manoeuvrability be worth the small loss in velocity... Then using the -A as a DMR-Light?

So, is this where the new link is? Postby Little J » 18 Feb 2017, 17:39

The DMR-light (one per fire team) appeals, rather than encumbering everyone with a longer weapon (naturally, those who can best use the better range/ accuracy will be tasked, but keeps everything, esp. ammo, interchangeable).

[Little J]

was expecting the post to be on same page as original video, sorry.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Admittedly from the US, but this SOCOM recent RFI’s sweetspots coincide with two of my favourites: 3 minute field upgrade to go over from the light, flat trajectory far out 5.56 to more hard hitting (including chewing up what ever materials the oppo might be hiding behind) .300 Blackout.

" The kit must be adaptable to the standard M4A1 lower receiver, any modification to the lower receiver must be reversible and nonpermanent. The kit must be in .300 Blackout (BLK) cartridge, total system weight, including the M4A1 lower in not to exceed 5.5lbs. Length with stock extended not to extend 26″ length with stock collapsed or folded shall be 17″ (T), 15″ (O) and a height not to exceed 7.5″. Weapon shall be fully functional when collapsed or folded. Kit should include a 5.56mm barrel that can be changed from .300 BLK to 5.56mm in less than 3 minutes. Accuracy shall be 3.0 MOA (T), 2.0 MOA (O) @100 yds. and 5.0 MOA (T), 3.0 MOA (O) @ 300 yds. both in .300 BLK supersonic.
"
Firearms blog takes the view that
"To meet these requirements, it is necessary to either dramatically shorten or do away with the AR-15’s receiver extension and buffer"

[marktigger]

or manufacture from lighter materials? polycarbonates?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Yep, and call HK first about what not to use...

[Little J]

Saw that on TFB the other day, with such a light weight and small size most commented that it was written with a specific weapon already in mind... And that a barrel around 7 inches would be needed!

[ArmChairCivvy]

a barrel around 7 inches would be needed!

Interesting stuff about the ranges (leaving aside the "punch" aspect)
"AAC estimated a .300 Blackout gun with a 16" barrel would have an effective range of 460 meters, but that the 9” version would still be useful out to 440 meters. By comparison, Colt says its 5.56mm M16 variant with an 11.5” barrel, the Colt M4 Commando, isn’t effective at ranges greater than 400 meters."

[ArmChairCivvy]

Interesting read
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012/armaments ... ilvers.pdf

Russian interest in similar rounds (ie. fatter, shorter rounds instead of long - in relative terms - and slender) has been focussed on
- subsonic (for silencers)
- a sabot like hard-kernel round to deal with protective vests/ helmets (in the more widely used, smaller calibre the 5.45 7N10 improved in this sense markedly over the older 7N6; even though there seems to be an opinion "on the inside" that by going into that smaller round they stepped on the same rake as NATO had... just took 20 years longer to think about it)
... so corrective steps emerging on both sides of the Atlantic; we as an island seem to sit silently in the middle and do nothing?
- of course, if you dont go Blackout but for full strength 7.62, then the mag loses a third (in the number of rounds)

The expressed US rqrmnt has been for supersonic, and by looking at the difference in drop corrections (vs subsonic) on slide 27 of the attached , that is easy to understand.

[ArmChairCivvy]

As we are (are going to be) stocking up with the new more effective rounds, it is public knowledge that BAE got the contract. But have not seen in which country they are going to be made.

It is quite worrying how centralised the production has become of late. The US output was 50 bn rounds for WW2, Germany managed over 10 bn. The Iraq war saw a peak of 2 bn and the Salt Lake facility (allegedly) peaks at 1.4 bn per year. So what happens when a minor shootout breaks out (minor in the sense that rather than gearing up permanent facilities, work is contracted out to providers that are normally doing "civilian work)?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCU33299233299207

BTW: France announced v recently that they are going to restart national volume production

[Tinman]

a barrel around 7 inches would be needed!

Interesting stuff about the ranges (leaving aside the "punch" aspect)
"AAC estimated a .300 Blackout gun with a 16" barrel would have an effective range of 460 meters, but that the 9” version would still be useful out to 440 meters. By comparison, Colt says its 5.56mm M16 variant with an 11.5” barrel, the Colt M4 Commando, isn’t effective at ranges greater than 400 meters."

I challenge you to stand at 400 yards and let myself plink at you to see if the are effective?

Usual disclaimers signed by yourself and I will let you have osprey and a Mk7, or whatever the internet tells you is superior.

A head shot or body shot at that range would be emotional for you.

[ArmChairCivvy]

would be emotional for you.

You are being emotional already. What is so difficult about these things that there is an immediate need to get defensive (and/or abusive, but that is fine with me; even though I would much prefer each side to the discussion to present facts and counter facts).

Let us start with definitions (101, so to say):
- most readers of this forum know that effective range is not defined in terms of Osprey or some other std service issue
- but rather it is a property of combining a certain type of gun (barrel length defined, if it is variable) with a certain type of round
- effective range is the range at which a standing, man-sized target is hit 50% of the time
- you can read from the "interesting read" link I provided how this translates to statistical units used in tenders (for small arms)

Now. enjoy the rest of your weekend...

[ArmChairCivvy]

I challenge you

How is your shooting ability, btw? My best at the age of six with revolver at 25 mtrs was 48. And in my second week of service (the first time on the range, 250 mtrs with ARs) I reached the Gold Standard, which only 4% manage, regardless of their years of service .

[ArmChairCivvy]

[quote=] ranges (leaving aside the "punch" aspect)[/quote]

Happy to talk about punch (penetration), fragmenting... and the optimal combination of the two, and how to achieve them (both the design aspects, materials and the combined cost implications of the two)

[Tinman]

I challenge you

How is your shooting ability, btw? My best at the age of six with revolver at 25 mtrs was 48. And in my second week of service (the first time on the range, 250 mtrs with ARs) I reached the Gold Standard, which only 4% manage, regardless of their years of service .

On a range with an L85a2 I will hit you.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Can you change your tone, please, or I will be forced to be of the opinion that you have mental problems.

[mr.fred]

Ok, I've changed a few bit's on the video, hopefully the design points are getting across clearer now.
I asked earlier, but never really got an answer and the wider context for this thread seems appropriate...
If you had the choice what would you have as a primary weapon, a 20 inch barrelled -A or a 16 inch barrelled -C? Would the small increase in manoeuvrability be worth the small loss in velocity... Then using the -A as a DMR-Light?

It's an interesting shopping list, and there's clearly been a fair amount of work gone into it, but i do end up with a lot of questions, mostly "why" and "how"?
For example, why the M16 Mag? A rocking magazine like the AK series or the FN FAL would seem more suited to a bullpup (and it's flared, not flaired)
Multi-position stock? Unless you can compress the action, all it's going to do is adjust from long to longer, while giving you another component to break and adding cost
Magazine rim as a screwdriver? Not one I've seen before and it leaves me wondering how you get enough torque to hold the screw in position without damaging the rim of the cartridge or unseating the bullet. Not to mention that rounded tool are poor for operating slotted head fasteners.
How do you intend to make it salt resistant, reliable and direct the cases? How much will all this cost?
Is using a linkage in compression going to result in a decent trigger pull?

As for barrel length, you also have to consider what barrel length your ammunition is designed for. Will shortening your barrel exacerbate your muzzle blast, which is more of a problem for a bullpup?

[Little J]

Why the M16 Mag? A rocking magazine like the AK series or the FN FAL would seem more suited to a bullpup

Why on earth would you want a rocker mag on a bullpup? Have you seen bullpup conversions of ak's? Mag changes are so awkward, the pistol grip either gets in the way and/or has to be hollowed out just to make room for the mag.

and it's flared, not flaired

Thought I got all the spelling mistakes

Multi-position stock? Unless you can compress the action, all it's going to do is adjust from long to longer, while giving you another component to break and adding cost

My thinking was everyone has it collapsed when wearing body armour, but on the range you extend it to keep the same length of pull. But I have no problem with dropping it and just having a fixed one. Would save weight too.

Magazine rim as a screwdriver? Not one I've seen before and it leaves me wondering how you get enough torque to hold the screw in position without damaging the rim of the cartridge or unseating the bullet. Not to mention that rounded tool are poor for operating slotted head fasteners.

When I get around to an update, the barrel attachment will be different and will probably use a torque wrench.
The handguard was a stumbling block and was the only thing I could think of at the time.

How do you intend to make it salt resistant

Plenty of other small arms go through salt fog tests ok, why couldn't this one with the correct coatings?

... direct the cases?

If your talking about ejection, the video shows at around the one minute thirty mark, the (Beretta arx160) bolt group engaging with the buffer, changing the rotation of the buffer causes the case to eject to the left instead of the right.

How do you intend to make it reliable

I'm a fork lift driver not an engineer, I haven't got a blood clue!

How much will all this cost?

See above.

Is using a linkage in compression going to result in a decent trigger pull?

There's no linkage, the trigger is bolted to the trigger bar, the sear is part of the trigger bar. Only real problem with this idea is that with the hammer forward (gun empty) you can't put it on safe - hammer needs to be cocked... And may be susceptible to dirt.

As for barrel length, you also have to consider what barrel length your ammunition is designed for. Will shortening your barrel exacerbate your muzzle blast, which is more of a problem for a bullpup?

Not sure about the carbine, but was the reason the kurz was shown with a muzzle shroud.

[marktigger]

Why the M16 Mag? A rocking magazine like the AK series or the FN FAL would seem more suited to a bullpup

Why on earth would you want a rocker mag on a bullpup? Have you seen bullpup conversions of ak's? Mag changes are so awkward, the pistol grip either gets in the way and/or has to be hollowed out just to make room for the mag.

[.

ROFLMAO magazine changes on a Bullpup awkward because its a rocker type........Magazines changes on a bullpup are an ergonomic nightmare to begin with and the M16 type mag makes it worse. One of the major reasons Bullpups are a dead end.