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Section infantry weapons

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
Voldemort
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Voldemort » 15 Apr 2019, 21:35

In Finland all infantry are jägers. The most common type of infantry would be those in battlegroups. The BGs are over 2000 strong, jäger companies depending on whether they're mounted in XAs are 260-300 strong and have 3/4 jäger platoons each 40+ strong depending on vehicle type. Each platoon has command section with PL, 2IC, medic, signalist, two runners (most likely motorbike/ATVs), and driver, FO squad with FO, FO NCO, signalist and two FO enlisted, three jäger squads that are all 9 strong, each with 2 PKMs and the platoon also has one NSV which can be mounted on ATV. Weapons at platoon and squad level include RKs, PKMs, NSV, LAWs, APILAS for now (will be retired soon) and a whole bunch of mines. At coy level there are AT section with NLAWs, sniper section, extra FO section and mortar platoon with 3x 81mm mortars as what comes to firepower.
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Voldemort
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Voldemort » 15 Apr 2019, 22:01

Voldemort wrote:In Finland all infantry are jägers. The most common type of infantry would be those in battlegroups. The BGs are over 2000 strong, jäger companies depending on whether they're mounted in XAs are 260-300 strong and have 3/4 jäger platoons each 40+ strong depending on vehicle type. Each platoon has command section with PL, 2IC, medic, signalist, two runners (most likely motorbike/ATVs), and driver, FO squad with FO, FO NCO, signalist and two FO enlisted, three jäger squads that are all 9 strong, each with 2 PKMs and the platoon also has one NSV which can be mounted on ATV. Weapons at platoon and squad level include RKs, PKMs, NSV, LAWs, APILAS for now (will be retired soon) and a whole bunch of mines. At coy level there are AT section with NLAWs, sniper section, extra FO section and mortar platoon with 3x 81mm mortars as what comes to firepower.


As you can see almost everything is disposable making it easy to reinforce platoons and sections. Moving AT capability from one platoon to another doesn't mean weakening the other as it would if CG was the main weapon for the purpose but only reallocating mines and other AT weaponry. The company can use the NSVs together as a firesupport element and even the platoons can muster a very formidable firesupport element with 6 PKMs and an NSV.

jimthelad
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby jimthelad » 15 Apr 2019, 22:45

Suppression eats ammo at fearsome rate no matter what calibre. Suppression would only be used in an under fire extraction of personnel or in the final stage of a section assault. I think what we are referring to is covering fire, ie 'If i stick my head up I MIGHT get slotted' not 'Holy shit if you are up there then clear a space for me'. Effective enemy fire is relative to the recipient, the first time if a round comes within a 100m then you are doing your best snake impression (or at least I did), after that it needs to be danger close. Well aimed single rounds often have more effect than spray and pray. If our enemy thinks we can reach out and touch at 600m then they will stay down. If not then we need to work out how to carry more ammo.

Voldemort
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Voldemort » 16 Apr 2019, 12:01

jimthelad wrote:Suppression eats ammo at fearsome rate no matter what calibre. Suppression would only be used in an under fire extraction of personnel or in the final stage of a section assault. I think what we are referring to is covering fire, ie 'If i stick my head up I MIGHT get slotted' not 'Holy shit if you are up there then clear a space for me'. Effective enemy fire is relative to the recipient, the first time if a round comes within a 100m then you are doing your best snake impression (or at least I did), after that it needs to be danger close. Well aimed single rounds often have more effect than spray and pray. If our enemy thinks we can reach out and touch at 600m then they will stay down. If not then we need to work out how to carry more ammo.


I would like to see a golf bag approach being taken into use. Have varying weaponry in the section transport and take it to use case by case basis. Expecting grueling close combat built up terrain? Grab a few M320s or Milkors. Need heavy supporting firepower? Take out the M2!

Lord Jim
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Lord Jim » 16 Apr 2019, 13:54

I didn't say an individual I said the British Army.

I do like how the Finns have organised things, it seems they have a set organisation, and transport is used when applicable. As for the M4 CG, I see it as a supplementary weapon at Platoon or Company level, used almost as direct fire 84mm artillery with an AT capability.


Regarding the effects of enemy fire, the nearest I have got to being on the receiving end has been enjoying Paintball and Airsoft and even then once you hear "Rounds", impacting near you, you take cover ASAP.

As for Matador, does anyone actually know how many NLAW and Matador would be issued to a Section/Platoon on active service? Is it possibly the case that for every Matador issued a Section would lose a NLAW?

Voldemort
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Voldemort » 16 Apr 2019, 14:33

Lord Jim wrote:I do like how the Finns have organised things, it seems they have a set organisation, and transport is used when applicable


Organisation is set and transport is organic. Jägers in regional troops have either BVs, tractors or XAs as transport.

mr.fred
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby mr.fred » 16 Apr 2019, 15:21

Lord Jim wrote:As for Matador, does anyone actually know how many NLAW and Matador would be issued to a Section/Platoon on active service? Is it possibly the case that for every Matador issued a Section would lose a NLAW?

Anywhere between none and 16, depending on the requirements and logistics

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whitelancer
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby whitelancer » 16 Apr 2019, 22:39

Voldemort wrote:I would like to see a golf bag approach being taken into use.


Couldn't agree more. Whatever the choice of weapon's allocated to sections, companies and battalions, it cannot suite all situations. What's required is greater flexibility in choice of weapon's and their relative numbers, depending on the type of terrain and nature of the operation being conducted.

mr.fred
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby mr.fred » 16 Apr 2019, 23:25

A golf bag approach would require more training, both in the weapons and to be able to make an informed decision about when to use what.
Though to a degree, there is already a golf bag approach, at least in terms of additional munitions and how the higher level assets are distributed. Keeping specialist kit in dedicated sub units that can be distributed out to other sub units as required ensures that the specialist kit is operated by people trained in its employment.

Lord Jim
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Lord Jim » 18 May 2019, 13:49

An interesting weapon, the 7.62 especially would be useful as a Section weapon or even in a Fire Team.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Poiuytrewq » 21 May 2019, 19:50

Whoever said the 6.8mm was the future?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... achine-gun

The 6.5mm and .338 combination is ballistically the smart way to proceed. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

Voldemort
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Voldemort » 05 Jun 2019, 20:23

One every soldiers' weapon that I think is somewhat underestimated is the humble Antioch hand grenade. Nowadays they come in all shapes, sizes and warheads. You got blast, frag, blastfrag, incendiary, modular. You can stack up modules to make a half a kilo blast grenade or have a small under 200gr frag grenade that you can toss around like candies on a christmas eve.

Lord Jim
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Lord Jim » 18 Jun 2019, 19:00

As far as I am aware there is no planned version of the Javelin that will include a fibre optic link allowing a man in the loop operations. Should we be looking at supplementing or replacing our Javelins with a newer system? Something like the Spike LR2 or the new French weapon the MMP? Maybe we should look at equipping 3 Cmdo Brigade and/or 16 Air Assault with a newer weapon leaving the rest of the Army and RAF Regiment with the Javelin for now? Adopting the Spike LR2 would provide some commonality with the NLOS system we purchased under a UOR during the war in Afghanistan which could lead the latter being adopted as a long range ATGW and precision fire weapon for our light high readiness formations.

Caribbean
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Re: Section infantry weapons

Postby Caribbean » 18 Jun 2019, 22:01

Voldemort wrote:humble Antioch hand grenade

Is this the one you mean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill


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