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Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 29 Nov 2018, 10:23

benny14 wrote:It was then reported several months later that the MRV-P group 1 has been raised to potentially 2,747 vehicles.


Looks to me that the base vehicle comes at the targeted price
"November 29/18: $1.7b order The US Army is ordering another batch of Joint Light Tactical Vehicles from Oshkosh. Oshkosh will deliver 6,017 JLTVs at a cost of $1,7 billion. "

Other than higher level protection (still a std add-on) what on earth are the 'gubbins' that make our vehicles (rumoured?) much dearer?

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Gabriele » 29 Nov 2018, 10:28

I have no clue where that rumor came from. The FMS approval for up to 2747 vehicles had a unitary price of 376,775 USD, and it included quite a lot of extras, as always with FMS authorizations which tend to aim for the stars as it is easier to buy less than authorized than seek a new authorization,

The Government of the United Kingdom (UK) has requested a possible sale of up to two thousand seven hundred forty-seven (2,747) Joint Light Tactical Vehicles (JLTV). This possible sale also includes baseline integration kits, basic issue item kits, B-kit armor, engine arctic kits, fording kits, run-flat kits, spare tire kits, silent watch kits, power expansion kits cargo cover kits, maintainer and operator training, U.S. government technical assistance and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. Total estimated cost is $1.035 billion.


With no evidence of big cost growth on the US side, i have no clue on which grounds the news of big cost increase for the UK started to circulate.
Mind you, the introduction of ANY new fleet comes with costs that go above and beyond the purchase of vehicles and kits themselves, but that is hardly the JLTV fault.

I wonder if the crowd of people opposing this purchase (not without some reason, thinking of home industry capability) have gotten overeager with their claims.


Also note that the latest US purchase includes 6100 vehicles and 22.000 kits.

Oshkosh Defense LLC, Oshkosh, Wisconsin, was awarded a $1,698,639,588 modification (P00163) to contract W56HZV-15-C-0095 to exercise available options for 6,107 vehicles and 22,166 kits. Work will be performed in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, with an estimated completion date of Sept. 30, 2019. Fiscal 2017, 2018 and 2019 other procurement, Army funds; and 2018 research, development, test and evaluation funds in the amount of $1,698,639,588 were obligated at the time of the award. U.S. Army Contracting Command, Warren, Michigan, is the contracting activity.


Doubt the UK is purchasing anything near that number...!
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R686
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby R686 » 30 Nov 2018, 18:47

Are these planned to be LHD or RHD?

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Lord Jim » 30 Nov 2018, 20:38

The FMS package announced for the UK probably covers a full support package for the life of the platform, with contractor support at all levels except the front line. This doesn't come cheap but it is a fixed cost which the Treasury in particular like. Also with a package containing nearly everything the British Army could possibly want authorised, there is far less chance of additional costs of any magnitude appearing down the line. From that I can see the MRV(P) is replacing not only many of the UOR MRAVs bought for Iraq and Afghanistan but also many "Soft" platforms eventually. There is still a place for unarmoured platforms on Salisbury plain but not on any deployment anymore. We have been caught out too many times and have had to scramble to get the right kit to the troops. Orders for both flavours of MRV(P) and the MIV need to be in the top five priorities for the MoD, and should be the top three programmes for the Army.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 30 Nov 2018, 22:57

Lord Jim wrote: full support package for the life of the platform
I doubt that ( while I agree that the Treasury wants to see 'fixed' numbers out to a 'number' of years)

Lord Jim wrote:replacing not only many of the UOR MRAVs bought for Iraq and Afghanistan but also many "Soft" platforms eventually

Exactly. No FEBA (anymore)... just think about what the French did at Agincourt :(

Lord Jim wrote:need to be in the top five priorities for the MoD, and should be the top three programmes for the Army.

Quite right; REF Pentagon (Mattis) Top 6... we don't have any ABM :(

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Lord Jim » 01 Dec 2018, 01:16

We might not take up the option, but as stated these FMS authorisations often contain everything a customer could want or sometimes dream of. IF sufficient 4x4 and eventually 6x6 MRV(P) are purchased it will go along way to transforming the British Army into a 21st Century fit for purpose fighting force, rather than a force that has to beg borrow and steal to cobble together a fully functioning formation.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Qwerty » 25 Feb 2019, 08:56


Jake1992
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Feb 2019, 10:02

This is why Iv always believed we should go with the foxhound family. With many variants already at or past the prototype stage and the basic model already in British army use makes it well on it way.

Yes they cost more but with them already being in service the set up cost that the JLTV would required would automatically be saved.
with the foxhound being British built I believe that tax revenue should start to be taken in to account along with other departments chipping in such as the DTI due it supporting a strategic industry

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby RunningStrong » 25 Feb 2019, 10:57

Jake1992 wrote:Yes they cost more but with them already being in service the set up cost that the JLTV would required would automatically be saved.

You're dreaming. Unless an alternative Foxhound was bought with vastly reduced costs, atleast 40%, I don't think that's true at all.

Foxhound hasn't been without it's issues, but there will be obsolescence and reproduction issues to address if it is to be restarted.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Feb 2019, 11:50

RunningStrong wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:Yes they cost more but with them already being in service the set up cost that the JLTV would required would automatically be saved.

You're dreaming. Unless an alternative Foxhound was bought with vastly reduced costs, atleast 40%, I don't think that's true at all.

Foxhound hasn't been without it's issues, but there will be obsolescence and reproduction issues to address if it is to be restarted.


Oh u agree the cost is too high this is most likely why it was discounted at the start, but this is why I believe there needs to be a change from HMG when deciding price ( this would also apply to naval vessels ) with foxhound being British built all areas in which tax is regain by the treasury from the project should be front load to the MOD by HMG and with it being a strategic industry departments such as DTI should stump up some of the funding as it is there remit to help strategic British industries, both these measures combined would help off set a great deal of the foxhound cost.

Yes it’s had it’s problems but a lot cinks have now been worked out, and when look at the fact the training and surplus trains are already set up cost and problems come down again.

I know it’s be a big change for HMG and is a dream for the most part but IMO this would be the best route HMG could take for both the army ( and forces over all ) and British industry.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby RunningStrong » 25 Feb 2019, 13:23

Jake1992 wrote:with foxhound being British built all areas in which tax is regain by the treasury from the project should be front load to the MOD by HMG and with it being a strategic industry departments such as DTI should stump up some of the funding as it is there remit to help strategic British industries, both these measures combined would help off set a great deal of the foxhound cost.

Yeah it's British Built if you ignore the engine, transmission, driver cameras...

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Feb 2019, 13:30

RunningStrong wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:with foxhound being British built all areas in which tax is regain by the treasury from the project should be front load to the MOD by HMG and with it being a strategic industry departments such as DTI should stump up some of the funding as it is there remit to help strategic British industries, both these measures combined would help off set a great deal of the foxhound cost.

Yeah it's British Built if you ignore the engine, transmission, driver cameras...


It still keeps engineering skills here in the UK over just buying off the factory line from the US

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Qwerty » 25 Feb 2019, 14:37

RunningStrong wrote:Yeah it's British Built if you ignore the engine, transmission, driver cameras...


The driver’s from Fiji

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Lord Jim » 25 Feb 2019, 19:17

Armoured vehicle production has not been seen as a strategic industry for decades, being allowed to wither to almost nothing. The current programmes such as Ajax and Boxer will help to re-establish it somewhat but only for the final assembly of platforms. Lack of orders was the core reason, especially after BAe were allowed to swallow the majority of UK companies in this sector, find out there was little income and so closed down or mothballed most sites and then switched its attention to the US where business was far better.

As for the JLTV issues I think that is more down to the way it has been introduced by the US Army. All platforms are getting more complicated so why are they surprised that the=is one is. The lack of manuals and so on is a situation that has happened more than once in the past, M16 anyone.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Qwerty » 02 Mar 2019, 13:26


Voldemort
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Voldemort » 02 Mar 2019, 14:54

What UK needs is some proper Finnish hardware.
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