Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

[mrclark303]

I thought the Superstructure Breaks in T23 were in response to how fire spread through Aluminium Superstructure. In effect fire Breaks. These were the First class designed post Falklands, and included Lessons learnt, Including the retention of Main Gun.

I stand to be corrected but T23 doesn't have an aluminium superstructure.

The T23 is Steel, they tried aluminium in the 70's with the T21 and everyone watched in horror as T21's burnt like an uncontrollable holocaust in the Falklands as the aluminium caught fire and simply burnt down to the waterline.....

Lessons learnt.

[donald_of_tokyo]

If my memory is correct, in the early days of Horizon/T45 program, France opted for a single super-structure option, while UK insisted on 3 separate superstructures. I remember the reason was to improve damage control, especially to avoid fire. Of course, it is when the aluminum superstructure idea had been dead for years.

So, regardless of steel or aluminum, separate super structure has a merit on damage control, to my understanding. (but not good for stealth)

[Ron5]

Digger gets the prize for the closest guess. Stealth and hangover from an hangar-less design are incorrect.

From the Type 23 architects:

The air weapons magazine is sited forward of the hangar on 1 Deck to avoid the cost of a weapons lift. The arrangement has also allowed for the torpedo tubes to be incorporated into the magazine and a semi-automatic air weapons handling system is being developed for this magazine. The gap between the air weapons magazine and the upper deck machinery space (containing diesel generators etc.) will provide a firebreak as well as athwartships access. The upper deck machinery space was chosen to reduce the extent of noise reduction measures required and hence the cost. Early arrangements without a hangar had all 4 diesel generators sited on l Deck. The gap forward of the downtakes provides the necessary clear area aft of the excited foremast, a removal route for the forward diesel generators, and a RAS dumping area.

As a side note, folks who guess should be careful not to present their thoughts as fact.

As a second note, aluminum didn't burn in the Falklands but it did lose some structural integrity due to the extreme heat.

[tomuk]

Digger gets the prize for the closest guess. Stealth and hangover from an hangar-less design are incorrect.

From the Type 23 architects:

The air weapons magazine is sited forward of the hangar on 1 Deck to avoid the cost of a weapons lift. The arrangement has also allowed for the torpedo tubes to be incorporated into the magazine and a semi-automatic air weapons handling system is being developed for this magazine. The gap between the air weapons magazine and the upper deck machinery space (containing diesel generators etc.) will provide a firebreak as well as athwartships access. The upper deck machinery space was chosen to reduce the extent of noise reduction measures required and hence the cost. Early arrangements without a hangar had all 4 diesel generators sited on l Deck. The gap forward of the downtakes provides the necessary clear area aft of the excited foremast, a removal route for the forward diesel generators, and a RAS dumping area.

As a side note, folks who guess should be careful not to present their thoughts as fact.

As a second note, aluminum didn't burn in the Falklands but it did lose some structural integrity due to the extreme heat.

Do you have an attribution for your quote?
Also reading the quote I see a lot of choices down to cost.

[Ron5]

Journal of Naval Engineers V29 #1 Type 23 Frigate Hawke et al available online

[new guy]

Journal of Naval Engineers V29 #1 Type 23 Frigate Hawke et al available online

?

[wargame_insomniac]

Some more good news with another T23 getting ready to upgrade to NSM.

Portland having her old Harpoon mounts removed prior to receiving NSM. Hopefully she will shortly be following Somerset over to Norway.

[new guy]

[donald_of_tokyo]

youtu.be/WV_tGe0UkJ8?si=1B5ywWhqwvNoihMd

Great, thanks for share.

HMS Montrose, almost all gears other than the 4.5 inch gun is ripped off. I'm sure her SeaCeptor datalink antenna is ripped off, and CAMM Launch Management Boxed (said to be 4 of them), as well.

Notably, she still has the mushroom heads. Of course it is there to stop watering coming into the hull, but it also means the heads are cheap, not worth replacing them by welding a steel plate (which is very cheap), like they did on the 4.5 inch mount on Monmouth.

[new guy]

.. but it also means the heads are cheap ..

Was there any doubt??

[tomuk]

HMS Montrose, almost all gears other than the 4.5 inch gun is ripped off. I'm sure her SeaCeptor datalink antenna is ripped off, and CAMM Launch Management Boxed (said to be 4 of them), as well.

No both the SeaCeptor antennas are still fitted on the bridge and hangar, they are the thimble like domes.

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS Montrose, almost all gears other than the 4.5 inch gun is ripped off. I'm sure her SeaCeptor datalink antenna is ripped off, and CAMM Launch Management Boxed (said to be 4 of them), as well.

No both the SeaCeptor antennas are still fitted on the bridge and hangar, they are the thimble like domes.

I guess only the radome remains?

[abc123]

Will T-31/26 take over CAMMs from T23 or they will get new ones?

[tomuk]

HMS Montrose, almost all gears other than the 4.5 inch gun is ripped off. I'm sure her SeaCeptor datalink antenna is ripped off, and CAMM Launch Management Boxed (said to be 4 of them), as well.

No both the SeaCeptor antennas are still fitted on the bridge and hangar, they are the thimble like domes.

I guess only the radome remains?

Why are you so sure her CAMM equipment has been removed?

[tomuk]

Will T-31/26 take over CAMMs from T23 or they will get new ones?

The missiles are just unloaded from the ship and put back in the stockpile. Here is a missile being loaded onto HMS Dragon. Similar procedure for CAMM on T23.

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS Montrose, almost all gears other than the 4.5 inch gun is ripped off. I'm sure her SeaCeptor datalink antenna is ripped off, and CAMM Launch Management Boxed (said to be 4 of them), as well.

No both the SeaCeptor antennas are still fitted on the bridge and hangar, they are the thimble like domes.

I guess only the radome remains?

Why are you so sure her CAMM equipment has been removed?

Simply because they were officially planned to be used for T26. Of course, plan can change, so I am "guessing" if the plan has not been changed.

I also guess some parts will be used for T31, but this is not officially mentioned, to date.

[EDIT] I am talking about data-link antenna and LMS boxes (said T23 has 4 of them).

[abc123]

Will T-31/26 take over CAMMs from T23 or they will get new ones?

The missiles are just unloaded from the ship and put back in the stockpile. Here is a missile being loaded onto HMS Dragon. Similar procedure for CAMM on T23.

I'm asking, because I had an idea to put them on QE-carriers if they will not just be passed on to future ships?

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS StAlbans back. Great to see another T23ASW coming out of LIFEX.

[donald_of_tokyo]

What is this "64 major upgrades"? Curious.

[Bongodog]

What is this "64 major upgrades"? Curious.

New deep fat fryer in galley
Netflix
New chairs in officers mess
And so on

[Jackstar]

HMS St Albans is returning to sea after a four-year refit at His Majesty's Naval Base Plymouth.

The Type-23 frigate shines like new, thanks to the extensive work completed during the overhaul.

As the ship undergoes simulated sea exercises with seasoned sailors guiding the new recruits, it marks a crucial step towards full operational readiness.

[Ron5]

Lovely video

[Jackstar]

[Jdam]

It seemed a bit strange we had heard nothing of the Type 23s since taking over from the Type 45. I wonder if the tempo has changed down there.

[Ian Hall]