Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

[SW1]

Navy driving!

[Repulse]

Navy driving!

Jezz, someone is having a bad day. On a more serious note, I guess it saves scalping HMS Bangor. So the Sandown class is decommissioned now

[Repulse]

Navy driving!

Jezz, someone is having a bad day. I guess it saves scalping HMS Bangor. So the Sandown class is decommissioned now.

[SW1]

Navy driving!

Jezz, someone is having a bad day. I guess it saves scalping HMS Bangor. So the Sandown class is decommissioned now.

in line to be an admiral

[new guy]

Navy driving!

Novel way to solve crew shortages!

Future FSL right there.


Quote from the MoD around the incident.

Due to an unforeseen incident, resources for the operation of HMS penzance has found. She will be operating in the gulf to finish HMS Bangor's (Ignore) deployment.

[tomuk]

Navy driving!

Novel way to solve crew shortages!

Future FSL right there.


Quote from the MoD around the incident.

Due to an unforeseen incident, resources for the operation of HMS penzance has found. She will be operating in the gulf to finish HMS Bangor's (Ignore) deployment.

Its in the press now - Mirror Online. Quite a crunch.

'Fibreglass' is not as easy to fix as steel.

[tomuk]

[SW1]

Navy driving!

Novel way to solve crew shortages!

Future FSL right there.


Quote from the MoD around the incident.

Due to an unforeseen incident, resources for the operation of HMS penzance has found. She will be operating in the gulf to finish HMS Bangor's (Ignore) deployment.

Its in the press now - Mirror Online. Quite a crunch.

'Fibreglass' is not as easy to fix as steel.

After closer inspection that’s definitely a big hole!!

[new guy]

Good to see the latest mines have:
a) Great lethality; Probably a decommissioned ship.
b) Active highly developed guidance; humans
c) Can be reroled to hunt other mines; what a world we live in with amazing British ingenuity.

[Repulse]

Best keep HMS Penzance in service - no point wasting money

[Tempest414]

Navy driving!

Novel way to solve crew shortages!

Future FSL right there.


Quote from the MoD around the incident.

Due to an unforeseen incident, resources for the operation of HMS penzance has found. She will be operating in the gulf to finish HMS Bangor's (Ignore) deployment.

I love the term Unforeseen in the brief it reminds me of the RNHF Firefly crash report that said the pilot did not have the skill to bring to the maneuver

[new guy]

Best keep HMS Penzance in service - no point wasting money

It was Bangor's last deployment anyway, so nothing will probably happen.

[new guy]

Update

[Repulse]

Best keep HMS Penzance in service - no point wasting money

It was Bangor's last deployment anyway, so nothing will probably happen.

Possibly true, depends on how long she was due to be out there?

Highlights perfectly the danger of relying on an increasingly smaller number of specialist ships.

[Poiuytrewq]

Highlights perfectly the danger of relying on an increasingly smaller number of specialist ships.

Agreed but I would put it differently.

It highlights the lack of mass and resilience to offset an inevitable level of attrition in a conflict. A peacetime complacency has infected both planning and funding and now it appears no one in a position of responsibility has the courage to admit it and demand a rapid change of direction.

The warnings are coming thick and fast now.

Another SDSR can’t come soon enough.

[tomuk]

Another SDSR can’t come soon enough.

So even more mass can be lost in the review?

[SW1]

Probably why the containerisation of mcm is going ahead being ship agnostic or from a pier.
Break the ship move the payload to a different ship or port and continue.

The lack of mass statement keeps coming up but mass of what? If it was simply about mass Russia would have won long ago in Ukraine same could be said about conflicts elsewhere.

The uk can’t have mass across the board because it doesn’t have the people or cash. It can have more resilience by specialising and expanding in specific areas it uses a lot or gets requested to provide a lot but that would mean giving up a lot of pretence elsewhere.

[inch]

The warnings might be coming thick and fast but does anyone REALLY think on here that whichever government gets in is ACTUALLY going to do anything about it in reality,the MPs are too invested in their own interests,ie giving more money to the NHS or the other side TAX cuts,I'm afraid my friends NOTHING is going to happen,yes another review saying what we need but theres no money for it cos we prioritising NHS or TAX CUTS and that's it my good friends, sorry probably not in right posts on here but you all get the drift

[SW1]

The warnings might be coming thick and fast but does anyone REALLY think on here that whichever government gets in is ACTUALLY going to do anything about it in reality,the MPs are too invested in their own interests,ie giving more money to the NHS or the other side TAX cuts,I'm afraid my friends NOTHING is going to happen,yes another review saying what we need but theres no money for it cos we prioritising NHS or TAX CUTS and that's it my good friends, sorry probably not in right posts on here but you all get the drift

The defence budget isn’t small. In the 24/25 financial year it will be 51.7 billion pounds or 66 billion dollars for comparison. Defence has to fix itself within its own budget and not based on fantasy efficiency savings. If it doesn’t and continues a policy of simply asking for more the situation will not improve.

[Poiuytrewq]

….mass of what?

Virtually everything is too small.

Firstly the next SDSR needs to accept that the post Cold War peace dividend is over and a new settlement is required.

Secondly any review must conclude that NATO is highly limited in global terms and that global security structures that are reliant on international coalitions are unrealistic and will not pass the stress test of a real conflict. It will be the same 3 or 4 countries that will be expected to get involved and the rest will make excuses and look for ways to deescalate.

On top that if the US introduces a non interventionist form of isolationism over the next four years, what fills the void globally to protect the rules based order if it isn’t countries like the U.K.?

Whilst a return to pre 1990 levels is unrealistic at this stage it is absolutely realistic to start the process of undoing the effects of the disaster that was 2010.

It is government policy to increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP when economic conditions allow. That amounts to an extra £10bn per year. More than enough to get the headcount back to pre 2010 levels after which the rest can follow.

[donald_of_tokyo]

The defence budget isn’t small. In the 24/25 financial year it will be 51.7 billion pounds or 66 billion dollars for comparison. Defence has to fix itself within its own budget and not based on fantasy efficiency savings. If it doesn’t and continues a policy of simply asking for more the situation will not improve.

Absolutely agree with this, but would add that defence needs to also be clear with what is achievable in the budget and what is not. If the government won’t set and communicate a clear achievable strategy then Defence has to state an assumed list of priorities and what can be afforded.

On topic would be what is our commitment to Kipion? Do we really need RN MCM units permanently in region, or should we support a regional ally to do the job buying UK kit / skills?

[SW1]

The defence budget isn’t small. In the 24/25 financial year it will be 51.7 billion pounds or 66 billion dollars for comparison. Defence has to fix itself within its own budget and not based on fantasy efficiency savings. If it doesn’t and continues a policy of simply asking for more the situation will not improve.

Absolutely agree with this, but would add that defence needs to also be clear with what is achievable in the budget and what is not. If the government won’t set and communicate a clear achievable strategy then Defence has to state an assumed list of priorities and what can be afforded.

On topic would be what is our commitment to Kipion? Do we really need RN MCM units permanently in region, or should we support a regional ally to do the job buying UK kit / skills?

Which has been the problem for a long time no government strategy since probably the 80s. It has been drift and faff. As there is no strategy, defence doesn’t know what it needs to contribute to that strategy and so we have continual change. The strategy imo needs to be export orientated re industrialisation with the infrastructure to support that and armed forces to protect that infrastructure and trade. We are a trading nation after all.

As for the gulf I have little time for the place tbh. So I wouldn’t be keeping the mcm fleet there. Even in the Red Sea I lean toward the French position more. Defensive escort of UK flagged vessels. If they want our protection then pay tax, insurance ect in London not panama or the marshal islands.

[jedibeeftrix]

….mass of what?

Firstly the next SDSR needs to accept that the post Cold War peace dividend is over and a new settlement is required.

"need" is a strong word to use when we consider likelyhood of an incoming labour gov't with an activist base that has fervently yearned for 14 years for more money to be spent on what they consider 'goods things', at the same time that taxation is already a record high and infrastructure spending at a record low. they'll struggle even to maintain this tax take - due to lag of tax aviodance behaviour catching up with policy. they'll struggle to maintain departmental spending as it is - due to debt interest and social spending chewing its way through the tax take.

where does extra money for defence come from?

[Repulse]

The defence budget isn’t small. In the 24/25 financial year it will be 51.7 billion pounds or 66 billion dollars for comparison. Defence has to fix itself within its own budget and not based on fantasy efficiency savings. If it doesn’t and continues a policy of simply asking for more the situation will not improve.

Absolutely agree with this, but would add that defence needs to also be clear with what is achievable in the budget and what is not. If the government won’t set and communicate a clear achievable strategy then Defence has to state an assumed list of priorities and what can be afforded.

On topic would be what is our commitment to Kipion? Do we really need RN MCM units permanently in region, or should we support a regional ally to do the job buying UK kit / skills?

Which has been the problem for a long time no government strategy since probably the 80s. It has been drift and faff. As there is no strategy, defence doesn’t know what it needs to contribute to that strategy and so we have continual change. The strategy imo needs to be export orientated re industrialisation with the infrastructure to support that and armed forces to protect that infrastructure and trade. We are a trading nation after all.

As for the gulf I have little time for the place tbh. So I wouldn’t be keeping the mcm fleet there. Even in the Red Sea I lean toward the French position more. Defensive escort of UK flagged vessels. If they want our protection then pay tax, insurance ect in London not panama or the marshal islands.

Agree - I’d see historically Kipion as a necessity for the UK given its dependence on gas and oil, given the recent shocks this should demonstrate that even with this supply isn’t guaranteed and energy security through domestic / local supply is a must.

Also, the UK has tried to use the Gulf to look to be useful to the US. We forget that after WW2 the UK was the predominant power in the region and the US pushed us out - blindly following US policy in the region needs to be reviewed as whilst militarily we need to prepare for peer conflict, we also need to diplomatically fight the “west vs rest” narrative that is successfully being pushed.

[Turnturtle]

Looking at the video clip, Chiddingfold appears to be making way astern under own power right up to the moment of impact. She does not then either rebound or move ahead, and there is clear visual evidence of astern propwash continuing, holding the ships together. Unless the collision was deliberate, it does seem to point to mechanical failure.