UK Defence Forum

Bring Deeps wrote:Just pointing out that none of the BBC reports I have ever seen about the carriers have ever provided a balanced or particularly insightful view. In fact their tone has been generally negative.

Let's see one.

Bring Deeps wrote:Many people do trust the BBC but the trend is in the other direction.

According to Corbyinistas and Faragists equally. But if you look at actual research you'll see you're wrong.

RichardIC wrote:Many people do trust the BBC but the trend is in the other direction.

During the Gulf War we relied heavily on the BBC news reports from the BBC World Service. They report the facts accurately in my opinion. How you interpret their broadcasts is up to you.

bobp wrote:

RichardIC wrote:Many people do trust the BBC but the trend is in the other direction.

During the Gulf War we relied heavily on the BBC news reports from the BBC World Service. They report the facts accurately in my opinion. How you interpret their broadcasts is up to you.

The world service is different from the BBC it’s self, it only get a fraction of public funding and is a more commercial entity last time I looked in to it.
When it comes to the broadcasting they do seem to much better than the home service, Iv noticed this my shelf when big stories break while I’m abroad to seeing how the home service reports the same story only a day or 2 later is quiet shocking really.

This seems to now being seen by the DG so ma t things will get better but I myself won’t hold my breath unfortunately.

bobp wrote:I do not think it would cost billions, to invest in expanding one of the existing dry docks at Pompey even if they need new cranes.

Be handy for the future type 46's too. You just know they'll be a lot bigger.

Aethulwulf wrote:The QECs are not going to be put through traditional year long refits.

Bet they will tho'

Its possible, who can predict what will happen say 25 years from now.

Another picture of QE.....and a video of task group. Apologies if posted earlier?

RichardIC wrote:Let's see one.

Take your pick:

QNLZ sets sail after Covid-19 outbreak postponed mission
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-54093648
7 September 2020
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-54064886
QNLZ postpones mission due to Covid-19
15 May 2020
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-52678313
QNLZ 800 crew end quarantine
29 April 2020
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-52472479
QNLZ 800 crew tested
23 April 2020
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-52400146
QNLZ stays in Portsmouth for crew tests
11 July 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-48947455
QNLZ water leak on aircraft carrier ‘neck high’
10 July 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-48933881
QNLZ leak forces aircraft carrier to abandon sea trials
23 May 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48375064
QNLZ captain flown off ship in ‘company car row’
17 May 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48310522
QNLZ captain removed from post ‘over car misuse’
30 June 2018
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-42875825
QNLZ sprinklers ‘accidentally triggered’
18 April 2018
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-43813832
Swilling coffee clue to QNLZ ‘wobble’
19 December 2017
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42406138
QNLZ leak found on new carrier
10 July 2017
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-40554822
QNLZ precautionary checks of new carrier
27 November 2014
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/the-reporters-30229988
QNLZ the sensitive aircraft carrier issue
4 July 2014
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28153569
QNLZ the true cost of aircraft carrier
5 June 2014
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-27713375
QNLZ fire crews called to fire

Jake1992 wrote: they do seem to much better than the home service, Iv noticed this my shelf when big stories break while I’m abroad to seeing how the home service reports the same story only a day or 2 later is quiet shocking really.

Agree. BBC's news site seems to go to sleep over the whole week end
- admittedly I am now moving away from the carriers (c'd on the dedicated thread)

Bring Deeps wrote:Take your pick:

Ok, I'll pick them all.

You've posted a bunch of links without any insight into why any are unbalanced or biased in the way you claim.

So let's be clear:

There was an internal flood that caused QNLZ to return to port early; departure was delayed by Covid positive cases; the ship's CO was dismissed; there were propulsion problems on trials; there was a minor leak.

And the ships overall are very large, very expensive and generally quite controversial. When stuff happens it's going to attract headlines. It should.

And can I also remind you that the BBC commissioned two whole series of Britain's Biggest Warship which painted a really upbeat picture of the carriers and the people who serve on them?

(RoyalNavy/NavyLookout) 3rd October 2020

Royal Navy F-35 pilot describes the experience of flying from the aircraft carrier. Royal Navy Video by LPhot Dan Shepherd - winner in the RN 2020 Peregrine Trophy competition.

RichardIC wrote: This is a ship that's meant to deploy globally, so Rosyth is hardly an issue.

Portsmouth, I get, but why other places on the south coast as opposed to anywhere else nationally?

Rosyth will be a problem for long term spending so long as the idiot Scottish population keep drinking from the SNP 'Kool Aid' fountain..

Cooper wrote:Rosyth will be a problem for long term spending so long as the idiot Scottish population keep drinking from the SNP 'Kool Aid' fountain

I hear what you're saying but would rather find ways to keep the UK together rather than dwell on tearing it apart.

RichardIC wrote:I hear what you're saying but would rather find ways to keep the UK together rather than dwell on tearing it apart.

IMO that horse has bolted. Brexit will have been the decisive factor to secure a majority for independence. Seems better to me to plan for what the future is likely to be rather than what one might wish it to be.

albedo wrote:that horse has bolted. Brexit will have been the decisive factor to secure a majority for independence.

Shipbuilding does need a plan B. Also, on the Brexit thread there is the discussion on "fish" so that if it happens that Scotland will not see its resource secured in whatever settlement will be coming, then perhaps "straw & the camel" will strut to the fore.

Moving on from the political side of things. Is there any serious news on HMPWLS sailing soon?

Also can anyone shed a light on whether or not it’s normal she wouldn’t be flying the White Ensign whilst alongside at the moment?

She is!

RN is getting some great coverage in the media presently.

Hopefully the "ship without planes" narrative is now well and truly confined to history.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/1 ... alongside/

Wrekin1410 wrote:Moving on from the political side of things. Is there any serious news on HMPWLS sailing soon?

Also can anyone shed a light on whether or not it’s normal she wouldn’t be flying the White Ensign whilst alongside at the moment?

I imagine it will be mid to late October when she sails but cannot confirm actual dates. She does fly the White Ensign, in fact my nipper has often been involved in the Sunrise and Sunset ceremony whilst along side.

PhillyJ wrote:

Wrekin1410 wrote:Moving on from the political side of things. Is there any serious news on HMPWLS sailing soon?

Also can anyone shed a light on whether or not it’s normal she wouldn’t be flying the White Ensign whilst alongside at the moment?

I imagine it will be mid to late October when she sails but cannot confirm actual dates. She does fly the White Ensign, in fact my nipper has often been involved in the Sunrise and Sunset ceremony whilst along side.

Thanks for the update. I thought she normally did but on the latest pictures and warrior cam images I hadn’t seen anything at the stern where it’s normally been flown.

RichardIC wrote:

Bring Deeps wrote:Take your pick:

Ok, I'll pick them all.

You've posted a bunch of links without any insight into why any are unbalanced or biased in the way you claim.

So let's be clear:

There was an internal flood that caused QNLZ to return to port early; departure was delayed by Covid positive cases; the ship's CO was dismissed; there were propulsion problems on trials; there was a minor leak.

And the ships overall are very large, very expensive and generally quite controversial. When stuff happens it's going to attract headlines. It should.

And can I also remind you that the BBC commissioned two whole series of Britain's Biggest Warship which painted a really upbeat picture of the carriers and the people who serve on them?

Whilst I admire your willingness to keep fighting even as your ship sinks you only have to read the headlines to get a flavour of the coverage which, as I said, was generally negative. As a small example why have two articles on the removal of the captain and four on Covid? I didn't even bother looking for articles on the F35 or PWS.

As for Britain's Biggest Warship you are confusing entertainment with news.

Fly on the wall docs are essentially people programs and the RN has some very special ones. The crew of a warship also creates the perfect cast and roles. The Captain - father figure and the loneliness of command. The Captain's steward - saved by the Royal Navy and devoted to his Captain. The Test Pilot - not Maverick, better than Maverick. Brave? yes, brilliant pilot? yes but also totally professional. No sky cowboys here. The CPO - a bit old fashioned but rock solid and really cares. Jack Tar - might have the odd bit of trouble onshore but the man or woman you would want by your side when it all goes off. Snowflakes? If you think that you have misjudged a generation.

Let's agree to disagree on the BBC and sign off humming Heart of Oak.

Poiuytrewq wrote:Hopefully the "ship without planes" narrative is now well and truly confined to history.

It has now migrated to...'the aircraft carrier with US planes'. Which ignores the UK aircraft (including all the Merlin) onboard. But, lets be fair it is also true. The fact that the programme plan has clearly shown this for years obviously doesn't stop this...

The annoying thing is that the 'carrier with US planes' will sustain the criticisms for at least the next year or so, including through CSG21. it may well last until 2025 when all the initial 48 F-35 are delivered. It will then move on to lack of escorts and solid stores ships (and again there will be some truth to that).

Basically....there is nothing that they won't criticise. The only thing that would assuage some of those critics is a further 48 F-35B on top of the 48 we're getting, 3 Solid Stores Ships, the T45 re-starting in production with 6 more ordered, the full 14 T26 ordered and T31 still...

And they'd then moan about Merlin Crowsnest..... If we'd bought a Nimitz, full US airwing and CSG they'd have complained about the cost...

Best just to correct and ignore.

When it comes to criticisms on lack of kit, it's always best not to take it personally.

They are criticisms of the government after all, the people that control the allotment of kit. If you're someone who, like me, would rather the forces have the best kit they need to get the job done.

It might be that they're on your side?

Profile is everything when influencing the govt budget, the more people know about the argument the better.

Think USMC /navy Will be taking close watch how hmsqe preforms next year to asses the small carrier concept as being reported in navylookout today,I don't mean they would want a qe class not their cup of tea at all but how the concept will workout and possibly take some pointers from the qe design if it works for them as a small f35 mini carrier, ie automation and design around a 5th gen aircraft,as said before I do hope the usmc onboard hmsqe come back with some good things to report about the ship and have a great time onboard this time and in first deployment in 21

Bring Deeps wrote:As a small example why have two articles on the removal of the captain and four on Covid?

As you asked I'll answer.

It's because they're news.