UK Defence Forum

Cutting 50% of our carrier force doesnt exactly say "global Britain" - I'll happily wager it doesn't happen so long as Boris is PM

MP's don't buy stuff. They do go on boondoggles tho'

cockneyjock1974 wrote:given the Brexit pomp from the Gov, it’s highly unlikely there will be defence cuts post Brexit.

And the ability to pay will have nothing to do with it (I have 'rather forcefully' argued to the contrary... and lies, damn lies and the statistics - that trump all those mentioned before them - will tell the truth). In due course, which might be rather soon

seaspear wrote:For arguments sake what aircraft does India have to operate off a stovl carrier ?

Indeed. IIRC, the suggestion last year was that the Indians are interested in a CATOBAR variant and that they want to build their own as part of their attempt to build up their own arms industry (though I suspect that they will need a great deal of hand-holding for that).

Would be interesting to know the costs of putting arrester wires on POW for their MIG 29k/LCA in STOBAR mode ? compared to how much they could build their own in india for as they are finishing IAC 1, maybe starting in a couple of years to keep their carrier building skills? would be good to see a fully CATOBAR version in indian service with the "made in india" badge, maybe in the late 20's or early 30's

cockneyjock1974 wrote:The defence minister is a cavalry man. Remember John Nott anyone? Plus Dominic Cummings is on record saying they are a waste of money.
The only positive is that given the Brexit pomp from the Gov, it’s highly unlikely there will be defence cuts post Brexit.

I agree. For all of Cummings bombast the signs are already there that he doesn't have the freehand or the support that I think he thought he would. For all those thinking he has huge sway I'd remind you that his strategy of pro-roguing Parliament was a dismal failure, he literally ran out of ideas then, if it hadn't been for the Lib Dems and SNP giving the government an election, which he didn't do much to deliver, he would have been a foot note in history.

But saying that I can't see more than a token increase in defence spending. All the signs show that the government has little interest or vision for the armed forces and haven't done for 10 years.

In what way MP's go boondoggles ron5 ,too what end , Wonder why the Indian folks who visited are having a visit for?

dmereifield wrote:I think its politically impossible, even if it were desirable to HMG (which I doubt very much is), to sell one of the carriers now

People no doubt said the same about Nimrod mra4.

topman wrote:

dmereifield wrote:I think its politically impossible, even if it were desirable to HMG (which I doubt very much is), to sell one of the carriers now

People no doubt said the same about Nimrod mra4.

Not comparable situations at all

"For all those thinking he has huge sway I'd remind you that his strategy of pro-roguing Parliament was a dismal failure, he literally ran out of ideas then, if it hadn't been for the Lib Dems and SNP giving the government an election, which he didn't do much to deliver, he would have been a foot note in history."

It actually delivered as planned, even if some of the events subsequently were not quite foreseen. The point of doing it was to put pressure on Parliament (Tory remainers, Labour, Lib Dems) and to either force through a deal or secure a GE (and simultaneously provide an opportunity for Boris to rid the Tory Parliamentary party of the remainers)

cockneyjock1974 wrote:PhillyJ have you heard any rumours about PWLS being sold to the Indian navy? I heard there was a contingent onboard recently and they were asking all sorts of questions. I wonder if they might be trying to build their own as well.

Nope, my nipper has said nothing about this so if it is in the wings then being kept quiet...they are off out again early Feb back up to Scotland for further sea trials and then a run ashorei in Liverpool.

dmereifield wrote:

topman wrote:

dmereifield wrote:I think its politically impossible, even if it were desirable to HMG (which I doubt very much is), to sell one of the carriers now

People no doubt said the same about Nimrod mra4.

Not comparable situations at all

Just RAFman showing his true colors. Can't help themselves when it comes to the Navy and carriers. Just eats them up that the Royal Navy has had all the post ww2 air combat action. Well except for the Jag getting shot down over Germany.

inch wrote:In what way MP's go boondoggles ron5 ,too what end , Wonder why the Indian folks who visited are having a visit for?

I fear you don't quite grasp the principle behind boondoggles.

Yeah must admit I've never even heard of such a word ron5 lol,cool

You can’t have been to many decent “Pubs” then”.

Ron5 wrote:

dmereifield wrote:

topman wrote:

dmereifield wrote:I think its politically impossible, even if it were desirable to HMG (which I doubt very much is), to sell one of the carriers now

People no doubt said the same about Nimrod mra4.

Not comparable situations at all

Just RAFman showing his true colors. Can't help themselves when it comes to the Navy and carriers. Just eats them up that the Royal Navy has had all the post ww2 air combat action. Well except for the Jag getting shot down over Germany.

Gosh how perceptive you are. You worked all that on your own, without any grownups to help?

But yes you're correct, random people's opinion on the internet keeps me awake at night. But then I just ring down to reception and they bring me up a nightcap.

dmereifield wrote:

topman wrote:

dmereifield wrote:I think its politically impossible, even if it were desirable to HMG (which I doubt very much is), to sell one of the carriers now

People no doubt said the same about Nimrod mra4.

Not comparable situations at all

My point is, defence reviews can and do spring surprises. Never say never.

topman wrote:My point is, defence reviews can and do spring surprises. Never say never.

Weirdly there are reports that the RAF are looking to stand up 8 FJ sqns today using Typhoon. You could read quite a lot into that (good news...SDSR not looking bad, or bad news...possible restricted buy of F-35).

It's been an idea for a few years now. It's nothing new. I don't think it'll have an impact either way on F35, it's unlikely they'll be more typhoons purchased. This is more of a case doing more with what they've got rather than some large increase.

Manpower and support will be the big issue rather than airframes I think to get this plan up and running.

topman wrote:It's been an idea for a few years now. It's nothing new. [...]

Manpower and support will be the big issue rather than airframes I think to get this plan up and running.

I seem to remember 5+2 rather than 8?

I'm sure I read somewhere that India were interested in the "design and plans" for QEC Class rather than purchasing an actual ship but who knows...

First reported in Australia, last April...

http://www.australiandefence.com.au/def ... EzEgTJpCkw

and then elsewhere...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-14997455

Finally, a slightly more balance review...

https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-bal ... ooperation

They are still sniffing around :-

India has been promised EMALS by the US and "India interested in Integrated Electric Propulsion and possibly Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier design" the first within the quote would go nicely with that direction
- the latter is just a sign that for years India was ping-ponging the design support between France and Italy
- perhaps they feel more confident to go in the QE direction, as those beauties already went to the EMALS shop, to try it on. So there's blue prints to dig up, though we should charge at least the 100 mil for them that France paid for sharing the design (for their planned nuclear carrier, which is again in the works, but with a different design as a basis)

Not sure if qe design more beneficial to India altho be a great asset or sticking with France new design for c de qualle replacement as that's will be an emals design straight from the get go ,plus they could tie in with the new carrier fighter France will build replacement for rafale that India already have ,kind of makes more sense them sticking with France altho don't get me wrong seeing another qe derivative design in India would be good