UK Defence Forum

Deleted a page worth of OT posts. Can we keep it strictly on the topic of the carriers themselves. Take the squadron size discussion to a more appropriate topic. Feel free to PM if you need guidance and do not reply to this post within this thread.

Posting for the photo, not the idea of us getting any of these

Ok...so thats landing backwards in F-35B and Merlin knocked off the list...sideways anyone?

So...so far on the QE Class ships we've had the following aircraft land on:

Joint Test Force
F-35B

UK Forces
Merlin HM.2
Merlin HC.4
Apache AH.1
Chinook HC.4
Wildcat HMA.1

US Forces
MV-22 Osprey
MC-53E Sea Dragon
MH-60 Sea Hawk

Civilian
Sikorsky S-92

That's not bad going to date.

And we've still got UK F-35B and Merlin Crowsnest to get onboard...

Following that, I suspect the other aircraft we'll see occasionally visiting in the future will be NH-90, CMV-22, Dauphin 2 (FOST) and perhaps UH-1Y and AH-1Z if working with the USMC. Can't see much beyond that to be honest. Do wish the RN would get a cheaper helo than Wildcat or Merlin for planeguard duties though, something pretty straightforward like an AW-139, E/O turret and rescue hoist and thats it.

Would be nice to see the Italians also trying out the QE for size when she heads east.

When did they say they were going to in the Pacfic again. hopefully it will be avalible for Tailsman Sabre, would be nice to see a combined Commonwealth battle group.

(@NavyLookout)

@NavyLookout wrote:HMS Prince of Wales conducting sea trials on the Moray Firth yesterday. Photo from @InvernessMom

PoW recorded 25.1 knots in the Moray Firth at 13:05 BST (12:05 UTC/GMT) on 30 September, just north-east of RAF Lossiemouth.

R686 wrote:When did they say they were going to in the Pacfic again. hopefully it will be avalible for Tailsman Sabre, would be nice to see a combined Commonwealth battle group.

The first operational deployment is scheduled for 2021, which is expected to include some time in the Pacific region.

The next Talisman Sabre will also be in 2021. But they are normally held around July and I'm not sure that QE's 2021 deployment will be in time to participate. It depends on many things beyond just the carrier such as F35b deliveries, Crowsnest workup, T23 refits, etc. Fingers crossed but we might have to wait for Talisman Sabre 2023.

SKB wrote:PoW recorded 25.1 knots in the Moray Firth at 13:05 BST (12:05 UTC/GMT) on 30 September, just north-east of RAF Lossiemouth.

Well PWLS hit 27.3 kts on the 28th according to MarineTraffic. (think this got lost amidst the removed debate!)

Lord Jim wrote:Would be nice to see the Italians also trying out the QE for size when she heads east.

I to would like Italians or Spanish Harriers doing some cross decking

Tempest414 wrote:I to would like Italians or Spanish Harriers doing some cross decking

Can't ever see that happening to be honest (even with USMC Harriers). Its one thing landing a helicopter on, but landing a STOVL aircraft is a different thing entirely. I doubt they'll ever take the risk even if the opportunity presented itself.

Can't remember but what was hmsqe achieved top speed that we know of ? Thanks

Timmymagic wrote:Can't ever see that happening to be honest (even with USMC Harriers). Its one thing landing a helicopter on, but landing a STOVL aircraft is a different thing entirely. I doubt they'll ever take the risk even if the opportunity presented itself.

Really are saying a carrier qualified pilot who lands on a 230 by 32 meter LHD can't land a Harrier on 270 by 70 meter Carrier I am shocked

29.2 Knots on 15 August 2017 (= +16.8% over 25 Knot Designed Speed).

The question is, "is it worth qualifying Harriers to land on a QEC Carrier, if there is little or no chance now that they will ever operate from one"? I think that question provides an all too obvious answer.

Tempest414 wrote:Really are saying a carrier qualified pilot who lands on a 230 by 32 meter LHD can't land a Harrier on 270 by 70 meter Carrier I am shocked

If it was that easy to clear a plane to land on a ship we'd have a load of F-35B on QE right now...

Enabling a AV-8B to operate form a QE class carriers is far simpler than what is currently going on for the F-35B. The former is a known quantity from its operating envelope to the support needed. All of these are currently being investigated for the F-35B which is the reason for the extensive trials, not just for eh Ship but for the airplane as well. One of the small issues would be to get the USMC pilots flying he AV-8Bs for example used to using the ski jump, but this is said to be very simple and actually easier than how they operate of their own (USN) vessels. Obviously the Italian and Spanish are used to this. We are not talking a long embarkation, but a literal flying visit as the carrier moves through the Med on her way east.

But the Ski-Jump on QEC Carriers is significantly different from the CVS. Harriers have NOT been tested, qualified for it. Or do you want to risk an accident on a New Carrier, just because you would like to see a Harrier land-on and take-off from it.
I would have liked to see a Buccaneer & Phantom Land-on and Take-off from a QEC if they had been CATOBAR, but it would have been pure indulgence & sentimentality on my part.
Any chance of seeing a Harrier operating from QEC probably disappeared with SDSR 2010. : mrgreen:

Look all I said is that I would like to see Italian and Spanish Harriers do some cross decking. Is there much point maybe not will it happen maybe maybe not who knows however I don't think is would be as hard as it is being made out by some.

Scimitar54 wrote:But the Ski-Jump on QEC Carriers is significantly different from the CVS.

How different is it from the Spanish LHD just out of interest as this has been designed with F-35 in in mind but still operates Harriers

Tempest414 wrote:How different is it from the Spanish LHD just out of interest as this has been designed with F-35 in in mind but still operates Harriers

I'm afraid the Juan Carlos was designed well before any real details of the F-35 were known (it was designed in 1999-2002), the X-35 had only just flown when the Juan Carlos design was chosen and the F-35 wasn't selected until the Juan Carlos' design was near finished. A non-partner nation like Spain may have been aware of some very broad brush figures but not much more than that.

The Australians also didn't include any fast jet capability in the Canberra Class (they left the ski jump on as it would cost more to remove it from the design than leave it there). The Turkish Juan Carlos design has been designed with F-35B in mind...but thats moot now.

The QE's ramp is longer and has a different profile, which will affect the aircrafts behaviour on take off. As far as I am aware the ramp work done to date has been primarily paid for by the UK with the QE Class in mind. It will be interesting to see how the Italians bring their F-35B into service on the Cavour and the Trieste as their ramps will differ.

Timmymagic wrote:

Tempest414 wrote:How different is it from the Spanish LHD just out of interest as this has been designed with F-35 in in mind but still operates Harriers

I'm afraid the Juan Carlos was designed well before any real details of the F-35 were known (it was designed in 1999-2002), the X-35 had only just flown when the Juan Carlos design was chosen and the F-35 wasn't selected until the Juan Carlos' design was near finished. A non-partner nation like Spain may have been aware of some very broad brush figures but not much more than that.

The Australians also didn't include any fast jet capability in the Canberra Class (they left the ski jump on as it would cost more to remove it from the design than leave it there). The Turkish Juan Carlos design has been designed with F-35B in mind...but thats moot now.

The QE's ramp is longer and has a different profile, which will affect the aircrafts behaviour on take off. As far as I am aware the ramp work done to date has been primarily paid for by the UK with the QE Class in mind. It will be interesting to see how the Italians bring their F-35B into service on the Cavour and the Trieste as their ramps will differ.

It will be interesting to see what happens. as a side note in an article from Airforces monthly Aug 19 they say USMC F-35b may operate from the deck of JC1 by the end of the year

Couldnt see the harrier having much problem operating from a qe to be honest. These would be PR appearances rather than a full operational clearance. Also f35 is more sensitive to ramp variances than harrier from landing gear layout and nozzle positions, f35 takeoff is all software controlled and configured for a certain slope rate.

All the ski ramps are now around the same angle, its the surface smoothness that would need checked on the other vessels. For operating the f35 the other vessels will be worried much less about ski ramps and much much more about heat/software issues, and particularly the aircrafts power demands.

Would be good to see the harriers on HMS QE but...if it's for PR they could always do Vertical take offs with a small fuel load just to say "I waz ere"

When do the Italian F35b get IOC for carriers as this would be AWSOME to see aswell !!! does that timeline tally up for her first operational patrol?

Waiting for some Tweets from PWLS as my nipper said they are likely to run into some local Typhoons this morning

I headed down to the beach at Findhorn on Tuesday hoping for a peek but had no joy, she was further east & further out to sea. Had to make do with a fantastic display from 2 Typhoons dog fighting instead.

We also had Chinooks & Merlin buzzing about yesterday but the weather was crap so I heard rather than saw them.