Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[desertswo]

Or simplify everything and go for the B

I can just about imagine the GRF with a ski jump.

It would be like the title of an old Led Zeppelin song: "What Is And What Should Never Be."

[desertswo]

Thanks for your input desertswo I just love your descriptions of how things work for real.

You are very welcome Sir. Just happy to feel useful now and then.

Then can I ask a question?

How difficult is it to repair different types of flight deck damage whilst at sea? I assume that as carriers become more complex they become harder to repair but how does this translate in practice? For example what is most likely to be unfixable without a return to port, damage to the hydraulics of the arrestor gear, holes in the flight deck, aircraft lifts bent out of shape or something else?

Thinking along those lines do you think that the QE has any particular advantages over a CATOBAR or STOBAR type?

Last question first, the one main advantage I see that QE might have over the other two is maybe operating in really marginal sea states. Other than that, the CATOBAR ship can operate a far larger array of air frames, and three in particular that give it a decided advantage over every other aviation capable ship in the world: A) E-2D Hawkeye; B) EF-18G Growler, and; F-18 Super Hornet in tanker mode.

With regard to the first question, like anything else in the world, the answer includes the phrase, It just depends . . ." However, if pressed, I would place the order of severity from worst to less severe, I would place the bent lift (or as we say, "elevator") as worst, followed by hydraulics for the arresting gear, and holes in the flight deck of the least concern. Between the Machinery Repairmen, Hull Technicians, Machinest Mates, Enginemen, and the Electrician's Mates in the Engineering Department, and their aviation rating counterparts in the Air Intermediate Maintenance Department (AIMD), the CVN has the fantastic ability to, "physician heal thyself." In fact, the CVN IS the repair activity for the other ships in the Strike Group.

This photo shows one personal experience that illustrates my point. On my very first deployment in Constellation to the Northern Arabian Sea during the Iran Hostage Crisis, we were involved in a collision with a Bangladeshi freighter. Long story, but we were not at fault and no one was relieved for cause. In any event we were left with a 70 foot long gash, roughly 15 feet above the waterline on the port side. One of the AN/SPG-55B fire control radar antennas for the SM-1ER battery we had at the time was damaged beyond ship's company capability to repair (basically it was gone altogether, and you cannot fix what isn't there), and Number Four deck edge elevator was jammed in its locks, and one of the Waterbury Pumps that drive the system was damaged.

I owned all of the hydraulics for the elevators. We used "Tilly" (the mobile crane used to pick-up airplanes on the flight deck) to heave around on the elevator platform so that my guys could climb underneath and use sledge hammers to knock the locks out. But before we did that, my Machinist Mates (the guys who operate, perform maintenance on, and repair the machinery they own) with an assist from the Machinery Repairmen (the guys who operate lathes, drill presses, etc.) and the Aviation Machinist Mates in AIMD, who manufactured armored, high pressure (60K PSI in this case), flexible hoses to replace those that were damaged, repaired the damaged Waterbury Pump. Once we had the hydraulics up and running, we knocked the locks out and ran the elevator up and down several times to show that it worked, then reinserted the locks with the elevator in the up position, and then left it alone for the remainder of the deployment for use only if it was absolutely necessary. Why? Because the platform itself, which is part of the flight deck when raised was still "bent" and no amount of yanking we did could solve that. Still, I was pretty proud of that effort.

Now, in the photo, that's the Northern Arabian Sea you are looking at through the aforementioned gash, and those are the Hull Technicians cutting away the jagged edges so that they could fit and weld in the new hull plating. And where are they doing that work? Why, in my Number Four Elevator Machinery Room of course!

[bobp]

Do modern ships still have machine shops? And secondly do they have people that can weld, machine etc. Getting people to go to school and learn these skills in the uk at the moment is getting increasingly harder.

[desertswo]

Do modern ships still have machine shops? And secondly do they have people that can weld, machine etc. Getting people to go to school and learn these skills in the uk at the moment is getting increasingly harder.

Sure do. There are two types of schools that teach those skills. The first is the "A School" which is an entry level course for junior enlisted ratings. There are A schools for every enlisted job in the Navy, from Machinery Repairman to Culinary Arts Specialist (or as we used to call them back in my day "cooks"). Now, not everyone is going to go to an A school right out of boot camp. A lot of times a kid joins the Navy without a clear idea of what he wants to do other than be a "sailor." So in that case he'll go to sea as an un-designated "striker." He might be in First Division (the deck force) doing Boatswain's Mate things, but meanwhile he keeps watching those Signalman guys doing their thing and thinks that's pretty cool and declares his intent to become or "strike" for the Signalman rating. Then the ship will send him to Signalman A school.

The second type of school is the "C School" which is for more senior ratings, anywhere between a Petty Officer Second Class to a Master Chief Petty Officer. One might be a Fire Control Technician Second Class who the command wants to learn about a new radar, so they send him to C school for that radar. One may attend several C schools during a career.

Even though a commissioned officer, I am a graduate of a C school in what used to be called the Boiler Technician rating. It was the Steam Generating Plant Inspector (SGPI) course. It is a course for Senior Chief and Master Chief Petty Officers who have been assigned to be main propulsion boiler inspectors. Those guys are assigned to naval shipyards, and other assorted repair activities. Guys like me who had completed their chief engineer tours and were being assigned to the PAC or LANT fleet staffs as members of their Propulsion Examining Boards had to attend and graduate, mostly so that when we were inspecting a ship's engineering plant and some ship's company CPO tried to fast talk his way around some discrepancy, we would shut them up with, "Well gosh Chief, at SGPI we learned that . . ." The guy's tone would change the blink of an eye, and they'd take up the visage of a whipped puppy, because you just don't fuck with a SGPI.

Anyway, yeah, we train and educate people to maintain and repair, to the greatest degree possible, their ships.

[sea_eagle]

DSEI 2015: Prince of Wales build currently running ahead of schedule, says Aircraft Carrier Alliance

Great news the ACA have confirmed that HMS Prince of Wales is running about 4 months ahead of schedule.
http://www.janes.com/article/54570/dsei ... r-alliance

In terms of the build schedule, the biggest lesson was the sequence of building the blocks. For Queen Elizabeth , lower blocks 01 and 02 for the ship's bow section were docked down separately in the build dock at the Rosyth shipyard before being welded together. For Prince of Wales , the two blocks were joined together before being docked down
The second lesson was completing individual blocks with a more advanced state of internal outfitting than on Queen Elizabeth , prior to welding blocks together.
The third was to put a "massive effort" into improving productivity, said Booth.

[bobp]

@Desertswo once again thank you for bringing your stories to life. I am ex Royal Air Force, but I can say that the training I received was the absolute best. I left the RAF as a fully qualified Ground Radar Engineer, that involved skills in Electronics, Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering. Plus courses in various radar systems. I actually specialised in Mobile Radars, which we took to various parts of the world when required. Sometimes we had to make do and mend, on one occasion a cable running from the radar site to the display tent got cut in half, the cable had 200 wires and needed quick repair but we did it due to excellent training in battle damage repair which is a thing you mentioned earlier.

[seaspear]

Some great post Desertswo very informative

[ArmChairCivvy]

Thanks for your input desertswo I just love your descriptions of how things work for real.

You are very welcome Sir. Just happy to feel useful now and then.

Then can I ask a question?

How difficult is it to repair different types of flight deck damage whilst at sea? I assume that as carriers become more complex they become harder to repair but how does this translate in practice? For example what is most likely to be unfixable without a return to port, damage to the hydraulics of the arrestor gear, holes in the flight deck, aircraft lifts bent out of shape or something else?

Thinking along those lines do you think that the QE has any particular advantages over a CATOBAR or STOBAR type?

Thanks for your input desertswo I just love your descriptions of how things work for real.

You are very welcome Sir. Just happy to feel useful now and then.

@desertstwo, about a different kind of battle damage control, on the deck itself, by the dedicated team, maybe you can share the story how a couple of guys saved the Enterprise from sinking itself. Sadly, the team leader was killed in the process. I can't remember where I read the account of it
- a different specialty I know, and relates to a different period (the Bay of Tonkin)

There is also the two-and-a-half penny aspect in the story, saving on the tar and (almost) spoiling the ship as the WW2 bombs were prevalent (whether it was for budgetary reasons or the factories just could not ramp up fast enough?) and their brewing time in a fire-fighting situation was much less than that of the modern ones

[Bring Deeps]

Do modern ships still have machine shops? And secondly do they have people that can weld, machine etc. Getting people to go to school and learn these skills in the uk at the moment is getting increasingly harder.

Sure do. There are two types of schools that teach those skills ..... train and educate people to maintain and repair, to the greatest degree possible, their ships.

Thanks for providing the practical insight (again).

[cockneyjock1974]

POW's starboard bow and sponson area are now a lovely colour of pursers grey.

[SKB]

pursers grey, eh? Wasn't aware PoW had banking facilities aboard

[Digger22]

POW's starboard bow and sponson area are now a lovely colour of pursers grey.

So, are they going to paint the whole of the front of the ship before sliding it back to join LB04, or slide LB04 this time. I know people close to the project have suggested that the front of the ship will be slid again, but that would surely delay the joining of the blocks?. My money is on LB04 sliding this time but then again I don't bet!.

[Jdam]

It will be the front again I think LB04 is placed in such away to allow for the line up of the propeller shafts and supports.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Part of POW's hull has been painted:


And we may be getting a new documentary on the carriers soon:

[SKB]

Please don't stick on "HMS Prince Of Wales" and crest stickers !

[RetroSicotte]

Drove past Govan today, huge chunk of a PoW lego block waiting to be loaded is present outside the warehouse. Should see another big segment on the way.

[The Armchair Soldier]

UK Carrier Strike Group Takes Shape for HMS Queen Elizabeth

Meet one of the indispensable members of the newly-formed UK Carrier Strike Group.

Royal Marine Lt Col Phil Kelly is the Strike Warfare Commander in the UK’s Carrier Strike Group battle staff which will be based in HMS Queen Elizabeth – his seventh aircraft carrier.

During the past few years the 44-year-old Irishman has spent time on the USS Ronald Reagan, Harry S Truman and George HW Bush as part of the long-lead specialist skills programme preparing the Royal Navy for the biggest warship it has ever had.

The former Harrier pilot, who served in HMS Ark Royal, Invincible and Illustrious, has been flying F/A-18 Hornets and learning all about carrier strike.

Read More: http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... -elizabeth

[desertswo]

UK Carrier Strike Group Takes Shape for HMS Queen Elizabeth

Meet one of the indispensable members of the newly-formed UK Carrier Strike Group.

Royal Marine Lt Col Phil Kelly is the Strike Warfare Commander in the UK’s Carrier Strike Group battle staff which will be based in HMS Queen Elizabeth – his seventh aircraft carrier.

During the past few years the 44-year-old Irishman has spent time on the USS Ronald Reagan, Harry S Truman and George HW Bush as part of the long-lead specialist skills programme preparing the Royal Navy for the biggest warship it has ever had.

The former Harrier pilot, who served in HMS Ark Royal, Invincible and Illustrious, has been flying F/A-18 Hornets and learning all about carrier strike.

Read More: http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... -elizabeth

Wouldn't be a Marine Corps without some Irishmen leading the way. That aside, LtCol Kelly has an interesting resume; being both snake eater and pilot. Glad to see that he got some shots and traps. I have two to my credit . . . "in the rear with the gear" in a C-2 Greyhound, going to and from Kitty Hawk and Ranger when I was a fleet inspector. As those of us "of a certain age," are wont to say,"it was an E Ticket ride."

[PhillyJ]

Must admit I didn't realise our RM could be pilots as well, every day is a school day!

[OevetS]

During my time at RAF valley as a JT with 19 sqn, i remember seeing 3 RM pilots going through fast jet training, that was it the late 90's.

[downsizer]

Served with a few in my Harrier days.

Always with the naked bar, weirdos....

[easydiver]

September update from the ACA: http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance.co.u ... r-2015.pdf

[Jdam]

LB05 ready for transport



From QE class carriers twitter (seen on gabs twitter)

[shark bait]

I thought they where being built in Glasgow, but the sky looks the wrong colour......

Beautiful reflection though, looks great.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Twitter users, you now have the opportunity to ask questions to HMS Queen Elizabeth's Senior Naval Officer, Captain Simon Petitt: