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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Little J
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Little J » 11 Feb 2019, 15:19

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Very nice photo of French carrier CDG. It carries 30 Raffle M, 2 E2C, 1 NH90 and 1 Dauphin.

And I think it is very much crowded. Even if half of them can be stored in the hangar, deck handling will be complicated.

HMS QNLZ will carry 24 F35B and 12-15 Merlin, with a few Wildcat, I guess. Thanks to her large flight deck, the deck will not look this much crowded.


And we won't have to move everything around for take-offs and landings :D

ThunderPants
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ThunderPants » 11 Feb 2019, 16:05

Seems Queen Liz it getting deployed??

The defence secretary also confirmed the Royal Navy's new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth is being deployed to the Pacific region, where China has been involved in a dispute over territorial claims in the South China Sea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47192232

Also talk in this article of converting 2 existing (container ferry) hulls into quick reaction ships!!

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 11 Feb 2019, 17:47

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Very nice photo of French carrier CDG. It carries 30 Raffle M, 2 E2C, 1 NH90 and 1 Dauphin.

And I think it is very much crowded. Even if half of them can be stored in the hangar, deck handling will be complicated.

HMS QNLZ will carry 24 F35B and 12-15 Merlin, with a few Wildcat, I guess. Thanks to her large flight deck, the deck will not look this much crowded.


I don't think we can fault the French for putting 30 Rafale onboard...but... the airgroup as a whole lets the cat out of the bag on the CdG's capabilities. Great for sitting off a third world nations coast and pounding them, but not much else.

2 E-2C - Rapidly getting out of date, first flight was 1973...France currently has 3 in total, unlikely all are actually serviceable. A USN carrier always has 4 onboard for a reason. If they can get 12 hours coverage per 24 hours I'd be surprised.

1 NH-90 - You need around 8 helos to do an effective ASW screen....the French just don't have the numbers of NH-90 in service (22 to date). Given the numbers of escorts they've had around CdG they'd be lucky to get 4-5 helos up on ASW duties, and even then they just don't have the capability or endurance that Merlin can provide.

1 Dauphin - This makes sense for HDS and Planeguard, cheap to operate compared to NH-90. RN should follow their lead and have a couple of cheap helos per QE class for HDS and Plane Guard, anything to reduce cost/usage of Merlin (not even Wildcat, something cheaper like AW109 with a hoist and FLIR turret).

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Roberto » 11 Feb 2019, 19:19

Timmymagic wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:Very nice photo of French carrier CDG. It carries 30 Raffle M, 2 E2C, 1 NH90 and 1 Dauphin.

And I think it is very much crowded. Even if half of them can be stored in the hangar, deck handling will be complicated.

HMS QNLZ will carry 24 F35B and 12-15 Merlin, with a few Wildcat, I guess. Thanks to her large flight deck, the deck will not look this much crowded.


I don't think we can fault the French for putting 30 Rafale onboard...but... the airgroup as a whole lets the cat out of the bag on the CdG's capabilities. Great for sitting off a third world nations coast and pounding them, but not much else.

2 E-2C - Rapidly getting out of date, first flight was 1973...France currently has 3 in total, unlikely all are actually serviceable. A USN carrier always has 4 onboard for a reason. If they can get 12 hours coverage per 24 hours I'd be surprised.

1 NH-90 - You need around 8 helos to do an effective ASW screen....the French just don't have the numbers of NH-90 in service (22 to date). Given the numbers of escorts they've had around CdG they'd be lucky to get 4-5 helos up on ASW duties, and even then they just don't have the capability or endurance that Merlin can provide.

1 Dauphin - This makes sense for HDS and Planeguard, cheap to operate compared to NH-90. RN should follow their lead and have a couple of cheap helos per QE class for HDS and Plane Guard, anything to reduce cost/usage of Merlin (not even Wildcat, something cheaper like AW109 with a hoist and FLIR turret).

Timmymagic wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:Very nice photo of French carrier CDG. It carries 30 Raffle M, 2 E2C, 1 NH90 and 1 Dauphin.

And I think it is very much crowded. Even if half of them can be stored in the hangar, deck handling will be complicated.

HMS QNLZ will carry 24 F35B and 12-15 Merlin, with a few Wildcat, I guess. Thanks to her large flight deck, the deck will not look this much crowded.


I don't think we can fault the French for putting 30 Rafale onboard...but... the airgroup as a whole lets the cat out of the bag on the CdG's capabilities. Great for sitting off a third world nations coast and pounding them, but not much else.

2 E-2C - Rapidly getting out of date, first flight was 1973...France currently has 3 in total, unlikely all are actually serviceable. A USN carrier always has 4 onboard for a reason. If they can get 12 hours coverage per 24 hours I'd be surprised.

1 NH-90 - You need around 8 helos to do an effective ASW screen....the French just don't have the numbers of NH-90 in service (22 to date). Given the numbers of escorts they've had around CdG they'd be lucky to get 4-5 helos up on ASW duties, and even then they just don't have the capability or endurance that Merlin can provide.

1 Dauphin - This makes sense for HDS and Planeguard, cheap to operate compared to NH-90. RN should follow their lead and have a couple of cheap helos per QE class for HDS and Plane Guard, anything to reduce cost/usage of Merlin (not even Wildcat, something cheaper like AW109 with a hoist and FLIR turret).

Timmymagic wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:Very nice photo of French carrier CDG. It carries 30 Raffle M, 2 E2C, 1 NH90 and 1 Dauphin.

And I think it is very much crowded. Even if half of them can be stored in the hangar, deck handling will be complicated.

HMS QNLZ will carry 24 F35B and 12-15 Merlin, with a few Wildcat, I guess. Thanks to her large flight deck, the deck will not look this much crowded.


I don't think we can fault the French for putting 30 Rafale onboard...but... the airgroup as a whole lets the cat out of the bag on the CdG's capabilities. Great for sitting off a third world nations coast and pounding them, but not much else.

2 E-2C - Rapidly getting out of date, first flight was 1973...France currently has 3 in total, unlikely all are actually serviceable. A USN carrier always has 4 onboard for a reason. If they can get 12 hours coverage per 24 hours I'd be surprised.

1 NH-90 - You need around 8 helos to do an effective ASW screen....the French just don't have the numbers of NH-90 in service (22 to date). Given the numbers of escorts they've had around CdG they'd be lucky to get 4-5 helos up on ASW duties, and even then they just don't have the capability or endurance that Merlin can provide.

1 Dauphin - This makes sense for HDS and Planeguard, cheap to operate compared to NH-90. RN should follow their lead and have a couple of cheap helos per QE class for HDS and Plane Guard, anything to reduce cost/usage of Merlin (not even Wildcat, something cheaper like AW109 with a hoist and FLIR turret).

Roberto
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Roberto » 11 Feb 2019, 19:25

Think they are just showing off.
Jealous of all the publicity QE has been getting so decided to show what they can put to sea with right now, something the RN won't be able to do for quite a few years ro come.
Or they could simply be putting the crew through their paces.
I choose jealous...

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 11 Feb 2019, 21:02

Has anyone got an update on CROWSNEST? Everything seems to have gone quite about the programme which is strange as I thought it would be trumpeted along with the F-35B when QE entered service.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby dmereifield » 11 Feb 2019, 22:19

shark bait wrote:Excellent, glad to see work to embed the USMC is progressing, the chances of seeing a 'full' Royal Navy carrier have skyrocketed.


2 squadron could still total only 12-15 F35s. Or at max, if they are full squadrons, maybe 20-24? Still only going to be between 1/3 to 2/3 full. Hopefully we can get 2 squadrons of our own on there in the not too distant future, whilst still being able to include half a squadron or so on the second carrier deploying after in commando carrier role.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby shark bait » 12 Feb 2019, 07:46

That's why I wrote 'full', not the apostrophe.

Also lets not forget around 20 helicopters that will likely deploy with QE. Between that and 2 squadrons of F35 are more aircraft than the UK has deployed in one location in over a decade.
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 12 Feb 2019, 16:37

So a USMC F-35b Squadron is made up of 16 aircraft and as we know a UK squadron is 12. So a nice mix for her first outing would be

24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 12 Feb 2019, 17:11

Tempest414 wrote:24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook
Can you imagine what that's going to look like?

It's going to be quite a sight :thumbup:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 Feb 2019, 17:50

Poiuytrewq wrote:t's going to be quite a sight :thumbup:


Only the Merlins are 'salty dogs'... the rest will be hiding in the hangar?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby dmereifield » 12 Feb 2019, 21:33

shark bait wrote:That's why I wrote 'full', not the apostrophe.

Also lets not forget around 20 helicopters that will likely deploy with QE. Between that and 2 squadrons of F35 are more aircraft than the UK has deployed in one location in over a decade.


Fair enough, missed the quotations

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 12 Feb 2019, 23:04

Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such ,the cost to fly these types of aircraft could be significantly less than a manned aircraft for some duties ,
Because we have no idea of the size of these uav/drones its hard to suggest how many could be in supplement to the carriers manned complement of aircraft

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 13 Feb 2019, 01:13

Tempest414 wrote:

24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

More likely to be 28 - F35
14 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 5 AEW )
and just maybe 2 - MV22

Chinooks not likely to be aboard with an F35 load out of that sort of scale (unless our Chinooks gain powered folding rotor blades by then) and even then it is doubtful.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby andrew98 » 13 Feb 2019, 04:00

Maybe a couple of USMC CH53 if they have an F35 sqn on board?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby shark bait » 13 Feb 2019, 07:32

seaspear wrote:Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such


Short answer is no.

The RN had a couple of efforts to get a project going, but I don't think any of them got the funding needed. The best bet now would be to get working with the USMC on their drone project. Reaper style operations from sovereign territory any where in the world is a massive boon for the carriers.
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Jake1992 » 13 Feb 2019, 07:59

shark bait wrote:
seaspear wrote:Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such


Short answer is no.

The RN had a couple of efforts to get a project going, but I don't think any of them got the funding needed. The best bet now would be to get working with the USMC on their drone project. Reaper style operations from sovereign territory any where in the world is a massive boon for the carriers.


I’ve mentioned this on the LSS thread the USMC are currently looking at developing the Bell V-247, this is a tilt rotar drone based on the V-280. At the moment there are 2 variants planed and AEW format ( which I think would a better fit than crows nest ) this is planed to have a 24,000ft plus ceiling and an on station time if 12hrs so 3 of these could give a better 24hr cover age than the merlins while also free the merlins up.

The other format is an attack variant that is said to have very similar capability to reaper/protector

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby dmereifield » 13 Feb 2019, 11:44

Scimitar54 wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:

24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

More likely to be 28 - F35
14 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 5 AEW )
and just maybe 2 - MV22

Chinooks not likely to be aboard with an F35 load out of that sort of scale (unless our Chinooks gain powered folding rotor blades by then) and even then it is doubtful.


28? You think there will be a full squadron of USMC and RAF/RN? Seems doubtful, I'd imagine that to avoid negative press they'd make sure that US F35s don't outnumber UK ones. I'd guess more like 12 UK and 8 US

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby serge750 » 13 Feb 2019, 20:44

It will be so good seeing her with a good size airwing, would love it if when she transits the Med and a meet up with CdeG and maybe Cavour could be arranged, looking forward to seeing a few PR shots.

Is it going to be 2020 or 2021?

I would of thought that a T23 & a T45 ( maybe 2? ) would be with her, maybe a US ship aswell?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 14 Feb 2019, 01:34

26 UK Aircraft
18 US Aircraft

From what point of the compass is there a negative press in that?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RetroSicotte » 14 Feb 2019, 08:48

Scimitar54 wrote:26 UK Aircraft
18 US Aircraft

From what point of the compass is there a negative press in that?

Oh trust me, they'll find it.

BRITAIN SO SHORT ON PLANES IT NEEDS AMERICAN ONES ON CARRIER

QUESTIONS ASKED AS MOD TRIES TO PRETEND U.S. JETS ARE BRITISH

SCANDAL AS LEAKY CARRIER NOW DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH PLANES

20 BILLION SPENT, AND WE NEED TO BEG THE U.S. TO PROTECT IT

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 14 Feb 2019, 11:52

Perhaps you would rather the deployment was postponed until 2023 or 2024, when we are scheduled to have the capability to embark two squadrons of F35B on board, That is, if the RAF agree to properly support the deployment. In itself, another Press disaster in the making.

I bet the press will complain about that as well, instead of what they should be covering, namely the scandalous state that our defences are in, which is due to the actions and inactions of all previous governments since 1990 and the lack of responsible journalistic reporting over the same period.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 14 Feb 2019, 12:04

And goodness knows what the Press will make of it, when we supply a squadron of F35B to embark on a US LHD.

If the press want to continue to make themselves irrelevant, that is up to them. Let us not lose sight of what is really important, to get the earliest experience of operating with a significant number of F35B on board, so that when we have enough of our own aircraft, the expansion of the air wing can be as seamless as possible.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RetroSicotte » 14 Feb 2019, 12:41

Scimitar54 wrote:Perhaps you would rather the deployment was postponed until 2023 or 2024, when we are scheduled to have the capability to embark two squadrons of F35B on board, That is, if the RAF agree to properly support the deployment. In itself, another Press disaster in the making.

I bet the press will complain about that as well, instead of what they should be covering, namely the scandalous state that our defences are in, which is due to the actions and inactions of all previous governments since 1990 and the lack of responsible journalistic reporting over the same period.

You mistake my post as disagreeing with the operation.

Merely stating that there is no such thing as "no way to look badly on this" from the press. Once they have their sights in, they will always find a way to get a headline.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 14 Feb 2019, 13:23

You must mean "Gutter" Press, rather than true investigative journalism then?


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