Ground Based Air Defence

[SW1]

Poland just put in a big order....

Remember this is seperate from their CAMM order for the Pilica system, which was at least 800 missiles....

Translation

I’ve read it is 138 launchers to form 23 batteries and over 1000 missiles

[SW1]

Poland just put in a big order....

Remember this is seperate from their CAMM order for the Pilica system, which was at least 800 missiles....

Translation

I’ve read it is 138 launchers to form 23 batteries and over 1000 missiles

Thats the CAMM-ER order...which is in addition to the CAMM order for the Pilica system...so at least 1,800 CAMM variants in total...probably over 2,000 when further orders come in.

[Poiuytrewq]

First good view of CAMM-MR, the Future Common Missile.

MBDA and PGZ have signed a Letter of Intent...looks like they're serious, which given the Polish orders for CAMM and CAMM-ER they should be...because there is a big fat order ready for the taking...

Others have pointed out that the artists impression behind shows a CAMM-MR launching from Mk.41 VLS, with 2 missiles in the cell...

[Poiuytrewq]

Others have pointed out that the artists impression behind shows a CAMM-MR launching from Mk.41 VLS, with 2 missiles in the cell...

Where does that leave Aster30 ?

[Timmymagic]

Where does that leave Aster30 ?

At present we haven't mentioned that we're ordering CAMM-MR. But its hard to see us not doing so. The Navy and Army's air defences would be dramatically upgraded as a result. Type 26 and Type 31 would be able to take some of the Type 45's burden away.

For the UK upgrading all Aster 15 and 30 to 30 1NT standard with the focus on defeating extreme long range more complex targets seems to be the way forward.

[Poiuytrewq]

Where does that leave Aster30 ?

At present we haven't mentioned that we're ordering CAMM-MR. But its hard to see us not doing so. The Navy and Army's air defences would be dramatically upgraded as a result. Type 26 and Type 31 would be able to take some of the Type 45's burden away.

For the UK upgrading all Aster 15 and 30 to 30 1NT standard with the focus on defeating extreme long range more complex targets seems to be the way forward.

Interesting.

So in a maximum effort scenario, a couple of T31’s acting as goalkeepers could add another 128x CAMM-MR or 256x CAMM to the CSG with each T26 adding a theoretical 96x CAMM-MR or 144x CAMM plus the T45’s 48x Aster and 24x CAMM.

So for 2x T45’s, 2x T26’s and 2x T31’s that’s a theoretical maximum load out of 688 missiles. Outstanding!

For the T31 in particular that is significant for what was supposed to be an inexpensive patrol frigate. Another vindication of the programme and useful extra mass and strength in depth.

[new guy]

Where does that leave Aster30 ?

At present we haven't mentioned that we're ordering CAMM-MR. But its hard to see us not doing so. The Navy and Army's air defences would be dramatically upgraded as a result. Type 26 and Type 31 would be able to take some of the Type 45's burden away.

For the UK upgrading all Aster 15 and 30 to 30 1NT standard with the focus on defeating extreme long range more complex targets seems to be the way forward.

Interesting.

So in a maximum effort scenario, a couple of T31’s acting as goalkeepers could add another 128x CAMM-MR or 256x CAMM to the CSG with each T26 adding a theoretical 96x CAMM-MR or 144x CAMM plus the T45’s 48x Aster and 24x CAMM.

So for 2x T45’s, 2x T26’s and 2x T31’s that’s a theoretical maximum load out of 688 missiles. Outstanding!

For the T31 in particular that is significant for what was supposed to be an inexpensive patrol frigate. Another vindication of the programme and useful extra mass and strength in depth.

I don't know how you got those numbers.
T31 = 64 MR
T26= 48 MR + 24 Normal CAMM or ER

[dmereifield]

Great, but most of the work will be undertaken in Poland, right?

[SW1]

If it progresses like the way camm has and delivers the way camm has it will great development all round and should be adopted across the board in uk service.

[Poiuytrewq]

I don't know how you got those numbers.
T31 = 64 MR
T26= 48 MR + 24 Normal CAMM or ER

T31 32x4=128. So a”couple of T31” is 256

T26 24x4= 96+48= 144

Exchange the fours for twos if twin packing rather than quad packing.

All theoretical maximums

[Timmymagic]

Great, but most of the work will be undertaken in Poland, right?

Very much doubt that. Its a joint development, but most of the CAMM components like active radar seeker etc are made elsewhere in the MBDA eco-system (MBDA Italy for the radar seeker). Those other divisions will not give up their work. And MBDA also has the whole centres of excellence thing going on as well...

[Timmymagic]

From the PS of the MoD to Defence Select Committee

"The committee raised the issue of replacing Starstreak High Velocity Missiles (HVM) which have been Granted in Kind to Ukraine. I can confirm that the Department placed a contract with Thales on 30 Sept 2022 to supply HVMs from the remaining stock held by the company. These missiles are due for delivery later this year. A further contract was placed with Thales on 21 December 2022 to commence work on development of a new version of the HVM. Both the number of missiles in our stockpile, and the number being supplied under this contract, are operationally sensitive. "

Sounds like Thales depot at Ballynahinch has been cleared of stock...

And it appears that Starstreak 3 is on the way...(Starstreak 2 was developed c2010, presumably they will need to update this to a new version to remove obsolesence).

[new guy]

I don't know how you got those numbers.
T31 = 64 MR
T26= 48 MR + 24 Normal CAMM or ER

T31 32x4=128. So a”couple of T31” is 256

T26 24x4= 96+48= 144

Exchange the fours for twos if twin packing rather than quad packing.

All theoretical maximums

thanks, as I thought we were talking about MR that is why I reduced it by 50%. So far, nothing has shown that MR will be quad packed, except for the part that ESSM comparatively is quite big to ER, so one could make an assumption that even a larger diameter missile would still fit.

[Ian Hall]

[Jackstar]

[marktigger]

might be a good option

[Dahedd]

Batch of these for the RA, RM & RAF Regt to supplement CAMM please.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... in-ukraine

[new guy]

Batch of these for the RA, RM & RAF Regt to supplement CAMM please.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... in-ukraine

literally a negative point.

[Dahedd]

A negative point? What does that mean ?

[new guy]

A negative point? What does that mean ?

Base CAMM is, for lack of better words, an optimised ASRAAM.
The reason Ukraine is using ASRAAM as SHORAD right now instead of CAMM is because we ( and Australia) Are replacing old ASRAAM's with newer ones, which means we have surplus missiles for essentially free, vs getting CAMM from a busy production line for X cost.

So you saying "batch of these to supplement CAMM"

Is like saying "batch of worse CAMM to supplement CAMM"

[Dahedd]

OK. I said CAMM when I should have said Landceptor.

Landceptor unlike Stormers equipped with Starstreak is static. Some of these would be beneficial to more mobile units & suppliment Stormer. Infact I'd use the Viking (or indeed the stupidly binned Warthogs) to carry a system like this.

[new guy]

OK. I said CAMM when I should have said Landceptor.

Landceptor unlike Stormers equipped with Starstreak is static. Some of these would be beneficial to more mobile units & suppliment Stormer. Infact I'd use the Viking (or indeed the stupidly binned Warthogs) to carry a system like this.

what? you still make no sense,
you arre saying have CAMM alongside CAMM.

[mr.fred]

what? you still make no sense,
you arre saying have CAMM alongside CAMM.

I think he means that we should have the Supacat (or other vehicle)-based launchers in addition to the MAN truck-based systems.

[new guy]

what? you still make no sense,
you arre saying have CAMM alongside CAMM.

I think he means that we should have the Supacat (or other vehicle)-based launchers in addition to the MAN truck-based systems.

thanks, if so also doesn't make sense because he refers to sky sabre being 'static' but so is this ASRAAM system.

[tomuk]

what? you still make no sense,
you arre saying have CAMM alongside CAMM.

I think he means that we should have the Supacat (or other vehicle)-based launchers in addition to the MAN truck-based systems.

thanks, if so also doesn't make sense because he refers to sky sabre being 'static' but so is this ASRAAM system.

Two things. One having a couple of ASRAAM\CAMM strapped to the back of a Supacat maybe a little more mobile than a pack of CAMM on the back of a MAN HX. Shoot and Scoot. And Two ASRAAM has an IR seeker not Radar like CAMM so an IR seeker equipped CAMM maybe be of use in certain scenarios.