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CO of HMS Scimitar has just said on GBC TV that the current Gib squadron boats Scimitar and Sabre will be 'replaced in the next two years, by much bigger gunned, longer range ships' Anyone any ideas....Rivers?

hovematlot wrote:CO of HMS Scimitar has just said on GBC TV that the current Gib squadron boats Scimitar and Sabre will be 'replaced in the next two years, by much bigger gunned, longer range ships' Anyone any ideas....Rivers?

What else could it be? That's the only appropriate thing to be commissioned in the next 2 years, right? Did he say ships or ship? Batch 1's are not armed are they? So it must be batch 2?

Theory: One Batch 1 River for Gibraltar, another for the Falklands?

SKB wrote:Theory: One Batch 1 River for Gibraltar, another for the Falklands?

SKB wrote:Theory: One Batch 1 River for Gibraltar, another for the Falklands?

All public info at present seems to suggest that we will have 5 OPVs - even the "up to 6" seems to have been dropped. That was pre Brexit though, and in the last few weeks it has become clear that we intend to restrict access to our waters, so perhaps there will now be a greater rational for maintaining more of the rivers....

SKB wrote:Theory: One Batch 1 River for Gibraltar, another for the Falklands?

SKB wrote:news only please. .

hovematlot wrote:CO of HMS Scimitar has just said on GBC TV that the current Gib squadron boats Scimitar and Sabre will be 'replaced in
the next two years, by much bigger gunned, longer range ships' Anyone any ideas....Rivers?

P2000 fulfils that description...

cpu121 wrote:

hovematlot wrote:CO of HMS Scimitar has just said on GBC TV that the current Gib squadron boats Scimitar and Sabre will be 'replaced in
the next two years, by much bigger gunned, longer range ships' Anyone any ideas....Rivers?

P2000 fulfils that description...

A shore battery of Brimstone missiles on the Rock even better...

cpu121 wrote:

hovematlot wrote:CO of HMS Scimitar has just said on GBC TV that the current Gib squadron boats Scimitar and Sabre will be 'replaced in
the next two years, by much bigger gunned, longer range ships' Anyone any ideas....Rivers?

P2000 fulfils that description...

Going on what Lt Cmdr James Myhill of the Gibraltar Squadron said last night in that GBC interview:
2 new warships in two years' time, replacing Scimitar and Sabre.
A "huge amount" more capable.
Capable of going "a lot further, a lot faster, with a lot bigger guns".

The P2000s are slightly larger, but they are not faster than Scimitar and Sabre. The Scimitars are fitted with 2 GPMGs while only Raider and Tracker are fitted with 3 GPMG, the rest are unarmed. The Rivers are certainly larger, have a longer range and bigger guns and definitely more capable, but they're not faster.

The Gib Squadron currently consists of 26 personnel, there's no way they could crew 2 River-class OPVs without massively expanding that. Can't see that happening with the RN personnel shortage, also can't see them placing 2 out of the 5 total OPVs in Gibraltar when they will be very much needed around the UK post-Brexit.

I don't think either Rivers or Archers match the description of what's been described so far. However no official confirmation has been issued yet so we don't have a lot to go on at the moment, time will tell.

Are we thinking too big I terms of vessels like the rivers or P2000 ?
Could be that there looking at something more like the Mk6 patrol boats, they are larger faster and better armed with 2 x 12.5mm chain guns, lightly manned and can ever carry a rib if needed

May be we will do a straight swap (2 for 2 ) with Trinidad & Tobago? The two boats manned would take 24 crew:
"The craft achieved more than 40kt in speed and small tactical diameter and short crash stop distance. The noise levels inside the vessel are lower, compared with those of similar patrol boats.
Optional weapon capabilities

The boats can be equipped with three general-purpose machine guns and one 20mm cannon."

http://www.naval-technology.com/project ... trol-boat/

Jake1992 wrote:Are we thinking too big I terms of vessels like the rivers or P2000 ?
Could be that there looking at something more like the Mk6 patrol boats, they are larger faster and better armed with 2 x 12.5mm chain guns, lightly manned and can ever carry a rib if needed

How about something like Super Dvora? With 25 mm Bushmaster in front and Brimstone launcher at the back? Or at front, like this, with Spike ( I presume that installing Brimstone wouldn't be some major problem );



http://maxdefense.blogspot.hr/2016/08/i ... -fast.html

Abc123 if assume the weaponry on the mk6 could be changed to suit, they have mounts on them for GPMG and RPGs

Could be s perfect fit for what's needed, add a river b1 style vessel for presence and that should be enough

Jake1992 wrote:Abc123 if assume the weaponry on the mk6 could be changed to suit, they have mounts on them for GPMG and RPGs

Could be s perfect fit for what's needed, add a river b1 style vessel for presence and that should be enough

IMHO, no need for Rivers in Gibraltar. Also, Mk6 is a bit too small. Something larger is necesarry. As I said, Super Dvora or American MkV or Swedich CB90...

CB90, or Ocean Eagle just for the good looks;

Abc123 the mk6 is larger than both the MKv or cb90, the mk6 is the US replacement for the MKv it's also better armed than either of those.

I'd put a river b1 style vessel there for presence, as we seen a large increase in incursions and of ever more capable Spanish vessels, it could also be used to help in the med if ever needed

Jake1992 wrote:I'd put a river b1 style vessel there for presence, as we seen a large increase in incursions and of ever more capable Spanish vessels, it could also be used to help in the med if ever needed

That would be complete overkill. A cheap as chips old oil rig suppy vessel or tough old trawler is the solution for Gibraltar. Minimally crew it, stick a GPMG onboard, hoist the White Ensign and away you go. Then all you have to do is notify the local Spanish law enforcement and Spanish Navy that maneuvering with it can be quite tricky and that you've just appointed the RN's most accident prone skipper to command it....maybe add in that he suffers from poor eyesight and struggles to see ships coloured grey as well. Then wish them the best of luck.

Incursions into Gib waters over in a matter of days following the first series of 'accidental' collisions...

UK/Gibraltar water is small, so no need for large boat. CB90 will be good.
http://www.gibnet.com/fish/waters.gif
Actually, I love to see Dvara III or IV, but maybe even they are too large.

Need a large boat not to get bullied by larger intruding spanish ships like happened the other day. The idea of taking a powerful tug and make a Gibraltar patrol boat out of it is actually not bad at all.
I'd still also base a River in there, but more as a form of forward basicng for Med and West Africa ops. Can't tie down a River in such a small area, obviously. Still, having it home-ported there would be a reassuring message for Gibraltar.

Gabriele wrote:Need a large boat not to get bullied by larger intruding spanish ships like happened the other day. The idea of taking a powerful tug and make a Gibraltar patrol boat out of it is actually not bad at all.

Interesting idea. May be RN can PFI it?

I'd still also base a River in there, but more as a form of forward basicng for Med and West Africa ops. Can't tie down a River in such a small area, obviously. Still, having it home-ported there would be a reassuring message for Gibraltar.

Agreed.

[quote="Timmymagic"]That would be complete overkill. A cheap as chips old oil rig suppy vessel or tough old trawler is the solution for Gibraltar. Minimally crew it, stick a GPMG onboard, hoist the White Ensign and away you go. Then all you have to do is notify the local Spanish law enforcement and Spanish Navy that maneuvering with it can be quite tricky and that you've just appointed the RN's most accident prone skipper to command it....maybe add in that he suffers from poor eyesight and struggles to see ships coloured grey as well. Then wish them the best of luck.Incursions into Gib waters over in a matter of days following the first series of 'accidental' collisions...

The Navy had a boom/ Moring tender gave it a P no spent most of its time swinging on a buoy in the north of the harbour the two lifting pulley extensions deterred any one getting in the way. Then the R.M.A.S. buoy mooring are not any longer government owned for the navy to purloin one. However a batch one River with plenty of good years running left are about, If the Gibraltar government did the same deal that H.K. administration did with the Peacock class it would be feasible solution. There was little trouble when the R.N. had a dedicated part time Guard ship. (last one type 81). Spain could become more belligerent about it stone in its shoe (Franco) post us leaving the E.U, a dedicated river could be the cheap option for the overstretched navy . Funding would have to be found for a ex Rig tender/ Tug were as the river is already supported.

Gabriele wrote:make a Gibraltar patrol boat out of it is actually not bad at all

You mean HMS Scott was overkill?

Would by very happy to see the return of the Gibraltar Guard Ship (GiGS) supported by a couple of these...

Gabriele wrote:Need a large boat not to get bullied by larger intruding spanish ships like happened the other day. The idea of taking a powerful tug and make a Gibraltar patrol boat out of it is actually not bad at all.

Exactly. Dual use. It could be used as a tug for a good portion of the time and intimidate other vessels who are playing silly buggers. Oil Rig Supply can act as a tug as well with the ability to undertake pollution control and launching small boats effectively. A River 1 or 2 is an asset thats in short supply, it's sensors, 30mm gun, helo deck etc just isn't needed off Gib.

Jake1992 wrote:Abc123 the mk6 is larger than both the MKv or cb90, the mk6 is the US replacement for the MKv it's also better armed than either of those.

I'd put a river b1 style vessel there for presence, as we seen a large increase in incursions and of ever more capable Spanish vessels, it could also be used to help in the med if ever needed

Sorry, I was thinking that you are proposing this:

Mk6 from British Army

http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23294.aspx#23507