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River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Jake1992
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 13 Sep 2019, 16:54

Tempest414 wrote:We have seen the Thai B2 design fitted with 76mm and decoys plus a mock up of the second Thai navy B2 with anti-ship missiles so it is doable but why the RN would want to go that far is the question that grabbing me . We have talked in past about what could be done with a B2 and what could fitted and the list is long but this is a little mad.

We have all been slamming BAE and the MOD about the cost of the River B2's but could the hulls have been built to a corvette standard ? sound unlikely


IMO if an upgrade is wanted then it has to be sensible these are still only OPVs after all. I’d go for something like 3 x 30mm fitted with LLM then 2 large ISOs one either side of the funnel/crane, one to house and maintain a rotary UAV the other as a control room.
I think anything really more than this would just be asking for them to be put in situations they shouldn’t be and a waste of money.

I do believe the hull build standard is meant to be on the very upper limit of an OPV so I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s knocking on the door of a covert build standard.
We could of got more if they were planed for, for the cost we could of got 4-5 true global OPVs / patrol vessels with hangers and the lot, but it wasn’t about the cost and more to do with the last minuet rush as for some reason the RN kept thinking right until the last minuet that the T26 design would be done on time.

Caribbean
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 13 Sep 2019, 17:48

Tempest414 wrote:the 2nd Thai navy B2 is in the water and is fitted with 1 x 76mm , 2 x 30mm , 4 x Harpoon missiles

The Harpoons sit where the crane is on the B2s, so you would lose the ability to self-load containers.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RichardIC » 13 Sep 2019, 17:51

donald_of_tokyo wrote:https://www.defenceprocurementinternati ... -dsei-2019

Not sure how "reliable" this article is (I hope he is surely not mixing Leander and River B2). Independent issue is, if RN will be interested in this "apparently heavily armed" version, or not. I hope NOT, but

I wanna see the "model" stated as follows

A possible vision of the River class’s future, with enhanced lethality and ISR capabilities, was also on display at DSEI 2019. It included a 76 mm gun, decoy dispensers, anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles and the possibility of a towed array sonar, which is a proposal being studied jointly by the Royal Navy and manufacturer BAE systems.


The model sounds like the new Thai variant.

The article doesn't give the claims any attribution, so not reliable unfortunately.

And why would you write a story about a model and not take a snap of it on your phone? Not saying it wasn't there, but it's just odd.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 13 Sep 2019, 18:05

Caribbean wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:the 2nd Thai navy B2 is in the water and is fitted with 1 x 76mm , 2 x 30mm , 4 x Harpoon missiles

The Harpoons sit where the crane is on the B2s, so you would lose the ability to self-load containers.


Bang on I would keep the crane as will come in for off board systems later on

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Poiuytrewq » 13 Sep 2019, 20:27

Would it not be more sensible to ensure that all of our Frigates are adequately armed before up-gunning the OPV's?

The idea that we need to up-gun the RB2's whilst at the same time introduce a class of drastically under-armed T31 Frigates seems perverse.

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 13 Sep 2019, 20:43

Poiuytrewq, it would be perverse, but then what is the RN thought process here. Assuming that all 8 T26s and 6 T45s are tied up on CSG and TAPS and the B1 Rivers are retained for U.K. Fisheries, then all other “warship” duties will need to be performed by the 5 T31s and 5 B2 Rivers.

Assuming that the RN vision still includes operating 2 LSGs, which would be a mobile regional fleet, then this would take up 4 of the 5 T31s as the B2 Rivers would be less suited to the role due to not having RAS capabilities.

Use the remaining T31 for FRE, then this only leaves the B2 Rivers for permanent forward basing in strategic choke points. Assuming this is the Gulf and perhaps Singapore, the up-arming the B2s start to make sense.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 16 Sep 2019, 09:09

I struggle to see the advantage here. What would a future up-gunned OPV do that it can't do today?
@LandSharkUK

Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 16 Sep 2019, 10:26

This will depend on where we are going to deploy our new B2's and what they are likely to face. What we now know is HMS Forth will be deployed to the Falklands and HMS Medway to AP-N. when Forth arrives in the Falklands she will be facing a Argentina that is rebuilding its Airforce and Navy so one needs to ask will Forth's 30mm be enough or would it be better off fitted with 1 x 40mm with 3P ammo and 2 x 30mm giving it more punch in both air and surface defence. again Medway will be facing drug outfits spending more and more money on better kit now what is needed is a helicopter however a UAV is what it can deploy so maybe a UAV that can carry 2 LMM might be a good fit it all things that need to be looked at

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 16 Sep 2019, 21:24



S M H
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby S M H » 16 Sep 2019, 21:34

Tempest414 wrote: on where we are going to deploy our new B2's and what they are likely to face. What we now know is HMS Forth will be deployed to the Falklands and HMS Medway to AP-N. when Forth arrives in the Falklands she will be facing a Argentina that is rebuilding its Airforce and Navy so one needs to ask will Forth's 30mm be enough or would it be better off fitted with 1 x 40mm with 3P ammo and 2 x 30mm giving it more punch in both air and surface defence.
Faith, Hope, Charity & Desperation provide adequate cover for the Falklands river at present. But the weapons fit of the Type 31 provides a future support structure should the Equipment requirement for the Falklands need up arming to face future theatre threat requirements. Without crippling bespoke procurement and support costs.

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 16 Sep 2019, 22:00

shark bait wrote:I struggle to see the advantage here. What would a future up-gunned OPV do that it can't do today?


As per one of my Escort Thread posts, the answer starts with the question how the 5 B2s and 5 T31s be deployed to cover the FRE, NATO, Forward Based and Future Commando LSG requirements.

Personally I think HMS Clyde should be bought and retained as the Falklands Patrol Ship, but assuming not and assuming the 3 B1s are retained for Fisheries then I’d say, the 5 should be:

1) FPS
2) FRE Support
3) APT(N)
4) Med / Black Sea (for asserting freedom of navigation)
5) Horn of Africa

A UAV would be of benefit to them all. 4 & 5 would probably benefit in parts to either a 57mm or 40mm, with port and starboard 30mms in areas where they could be hassled by fast craft or UAVs.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill


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