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River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 04 Jun 2019, 17:51

I know it is a big step replacing 30mm with 40mm but it does give an extra level of anti air that the 30mm will not and now both team 31 and BAE/CL have seemed to have ditched Phalanx I think any little extra could help. As for the B2 Rivers I would be happy with 57mm or 40mm as both would give some form of anti air that the ships just don't have at this time

SW1
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SW1 » 04 Jun 2019, 20:09

I actual think this another pointer along a much larger trend. It is the moving of what was once an area for purely specialist vessels into one that is platform agnostic. Along with mcm capability, hydrographic and an element of asw the equipment we buy is now in iso containers not ships. The most interesting part of this is the emergence of usv like seagull and arcimis because they add persistence.

We have had aviation capable ships (aircraft carriers) for a while and if you put chinooks and marines on it or fastjets, or asw helicopters or attack helicopters it’s role changes.

We are now at a point where we have ships like the bay class were we can carry in numbers unmanned boats, patrol boats or some marines or a couple of helicopter or some stores and the role of that ship changes accordingly dependant on what it’s carrying. Taking a leap these vessels would replace your tradition light frigates, mcm, hydro ect, it will mean reduced ship numbers and more detachments of specialist to agnostic platforms.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 04 Jun 2019, 20:29

If you get your wish then there will be not much to provide NGS. 57mm as the biggest gun on a Type 45!!!!!, must be SRM.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 04 Jun 2019, 20:46

NGS is over rated and I cannot see the RN committing one of its few T-45s to the role. Therefore the need to retain the Mk8 vanishes on this class so you might as well install a weapon that is of some use and the BAe 57mm fits the bill. If NGS was that important the RFI for the T-31e would have stipulated a 5" gun.

Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 04 Jun 2019, 20:55

Scimitar54 wrote:If you get your wish then there will be not much to provide NGS. 57mm as the biggest gun on a Type 45!!!!!, must be SRM.


As hard as it is hard to hear all the type 45,s will be working hard to cover the carrier groups and we can not afford to lose one doing NGS .

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 04 Jun 2019, 22:19

And so will the type 26s, so it will be up to the T31s!!!!! :idea:

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 04 Jun 2019, 23:00

there is some hope in that the type 26 will be fitted with the mk-45 gun which can use Vulcano rounds which means the ship can stand off more as the new round has a claimed 90km range over the mk-8s 27km's. We are still low on numbers of both ships

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SW1 » 04 Jun 2019, 23:02

Or strap some guns or rockets to modified landing craft it was all the rage about 75 years ago.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 04 Jun 2019, 23:23

so I see some good footage of land based gun crews firing from landing craft

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 05 Jun 2019, 09:25

SW1 wrote:We are now at a point where we have ships like the bay class were we can carry in numbers unmanned boats, patrol boats or some marines or a couple of helicopter or some stores and the role of that ship changes accordingly dependant on what it’s carrying. Taking a leap these vessels would replace your tradition light frigates, mcm, hydro ect, it will mean reduced ship numbers and more detachments of specialist to agnostic platforms.


The Bays are a great ship and the MOD are hopefully starting to see that selling one was not a good idea but there primary role is Amphib support and all the rest of the work they do is away of keeping them busy so there are not cut. it is interesting that the RN is keeping Albion busy as well two big deployments in 2 years.

Coming back to the B2 Rivers maybe they will come into there own for me right now give them a upgrade to the new Bofors 40mm Mk-4 for all round better defence then set too building up off board system for them start with a UAV fitted with I Master Radar and then do a trial with ARCIMS or seagull i.e can it be carried on the the Rivers and be craned off and on as needed this if it works this would make the new Rivers very useful ships

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 08 Jun 2019, 08:41

Came across this picture of a model of the new Thai Navy HTMS Prachuap Khiri Khan (ex HTMS Trang) - not suggesting that the RN should put Harpoons on the back of theirs, but interesting in terms how the Thai’s have pimped theirs.

Image
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 08 Jun 2019, 16:23

Medway is "Ready For Sea Date inspection complete, and a final thank-you to all at BAES_Maritime. HMS_Medway is ready to sail and becomes the newest ship in the RoyalNavy fleet!".



Although minor issue, the HMS Medway turn is impressive. Very sharp.

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Old RN
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Old RN » 09 Jun 2019, 08:05

I believe a heavy weight SSM (such as Harpoon) is overkill for the OPV but putting StarStreak launchers at the beam mounts and mounting ship launched Sea Venom midships between the funnel and bridge would be very interesting? It would be like the Oman use of Sea Skua.

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 09 Jun 2019, 09:28

Old RN, always a big debate here, but if the B2 Rivers are going to have more globe trotting role then I think a single 30mm is inadequate.

However, any addition weaponry has to be appropriate to the role (Patrol / Presence), the ship (it’s not a Frigate) and cost.

My view would be to add:
- the port and starboard 30mms which were on the original design
- a self contained medium calibre gun with “smart” ammo for defensive short range AAW and ASuW.
- electronic counter measures and possibly a Surface Ship Torpedo Defence system.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 09 Jun 2019, 12:30

I would agree that any upgrade to the B2's needs to be inline with its role and where it is likely to operate. For me a lot depends on the T-31 winner and what armament is fitted. From the latest info on A-140 and Leander it looks like Phalanx is out and will not be fitted if this is true then for me the RN should look to fit 2 x Bofors 40mm Mk-4 with 3P ammo in place of the 30mm to give the ship a better air defence gun. This could then open the door to the B2 Rivers being fitted with the same gun and Ammo again for all round better defence. next if we wanted to beef them up a bit more we could add 2 x 8 round Aselsan type mounts capable of operating LMM or Starstreak on the beam points

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Old RN
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Old RN » 10 Jun 2019, 07:23

In terms of cost the use of StarStreak/LMM in the waist position and Sea Venom just forward of the funnel should not be expensive as they are both in the current inventory?

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 10 Jun 2019, 08:32

StarStreak isnt in the navys inventory, and what is the point in StarStreak? It's used to counter attack helicopters, is that something that threatens the OPV's?
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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 10 Jun 2019, 09:27

No it is not in the Navy but it is in the MOD. For me the point is if we are going to send the B2's off on patrols in the med or as we have seen the B1's in the Black sea then maybe we need to look at there ability to defend them self and I think the sweet spot is 1 x 40mm Mk-4 Bofors with 3P ammo and 2 x LMM 8 round aselsan mounts now if this mount can carry Starstreak as well as LMM then why not a mach 3 point defence missile can't be a bad thing to have

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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RichardIC » 10 Jun 2019, 09:51

Tempest414 wrote:or as we have seen the B1's in the Black sea


I may have missed something but when have we seen B1s in the Black Sea? HMS Echo has gone recently and there was no need to arm her to the teeth.

We've also had Border Force cutters in the Med and they're completely unarmed.

Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 10 Jun 2019, 10:18

RichardIC wrote: HMS Echo has gone recently and there was no need to arm her to the teeth.


Well lets look at it

Echo class 2 x 20mm , 2 x miniguns , 4 x GPMG

B2 River 1 x 30mm , 2 x miniguns , 2 x GPMG

Looks to me the Echos are pretty well armed. And I for one do not think that 1 x 40mm and upto 16 LMM plus small arms it over the top as these ships role is moving from EEZ to low end global patrol we are not talking about making them into corvettes just giving them very good point defence

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Dahedd » 10 Jun 2019, 11:42

Is it feasible to use the 40mm cannon from the Warrior & Ajax on a naval vessel? I know Thales has the land based RapidFire air defence concept.

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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RichardIC » 10 Jun 2019, 11:49

Dahedd wrote:Is it feasible to use the 40mm cannon from the Warrior & Ajax on a naval vessel? I know Thales has the land based RapidFire air defence concept.



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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 10 Jun 2019, 12:02

RapidFire is an odd choice of name, compared to other CIWS it has a very slow rate of fire.
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Lord Jim
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 10 Jun 2019, 14:24

True but it does have the fused ammo to compensate. Mind you a name has never had to bear any relation to the platform it applies to does it.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 11 Jun 2019, 00:51

Beautiful shots!

Forth and Medway


Medway at speed!


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