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River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 22 May 2020, 20:30

There's enough vessels for a coastguard. The Navy and border force both have 9 patrol boats, plus the other agencies contributing to British maritime security.

Yes it's currently the UK is the role of the Navy, but in Germany and America domestic maritime security of the job the coastguard. This enables the navy to focus on their highest value tasks. The Brits would benefit from a similar system, allowing the RN to focus it's core roles and using them to protect British interests globally.

The Royal Navy is a finite and very expensive resource, so use it where it has the biggest effect.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 22 May 2020, 20:50

In the US though the cost guard is a militarised force the same to an existent would be needed here as well if they were to take over the current EEZ role.

I’m all for making the whole thing more streamlined but wouldn’t it be better to combine all the other agencies but keep the OPVs in the RN that way you don’t need a separate militarised force out side the RN

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 22 May 2020, 21:24

In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement".

That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 22 May 2020, 21:29

RichardIC wrote:It's a law enforcement matter. It doesn't need military involvement.

Fishery Protection has been a military task for at least the last 350 years, though the origins go back to Edward IV in the late 1400's. Sometimes there are things that only naval officers have the legal authority to do. Civilians have limited authority outside of territorial waters.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 22 May 2020, 21:38

shark bait wrote:In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement".

That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.


That maybe so but are you really going to have unarmed civilian vessels doing the FRE role ?

Like I said I’m all for streamlining things but certain roles need a militarised force to undertake them, if you took say the current what 4 odd agencies and reduced then to 2 a civilian one ( UKBF, Fisheries abd others ) and the RN OPVs then you have stream lined.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RichardIC » 22 May 2020, 22:11

Scimitar54 wrote:If you really believe that, then by the same definition, why have QRA for incursions into UK air space, or an Army to defend against invasion. A raid on UK fish stocks IS an attack on the assets of this country and individuals who commit such offences (with or without political support from a foreign power) are highly likely to be committing other offences as well. Or perhaps you think that unarmed policemen still deter armed robbers as well. Get real!


Ok!..... ??.. ..!

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RAF>FAN » 23 May 2020, 08:55


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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 23 May 2020, 09:35

RAF>FAN wrote:https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/ministry-defence-branded-foolhardy-cutting-ties-ex-royal-navy-workhorse-hms-clyde-2860894


Would have to agree - seems a complete waste given that for a small amount we could have a flexible platform that would last 10 years (and help fill the inevitable gaps due to funding). The 5 B2s will be forward deployed to cover the drop in GP Frigates, having an OPV capable of acting as a lily pad for a ASW Merlin in UK and Atlantic waters has great value.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 23 May 2020, 10:24

As I have said in the past Clyde should have been made the Nav training ship giving the navy a lot of training option including small deck training for helicopters and the 3 B1's left to get on with EEZ work

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 23 May 2020, 10:42

While seconding the post by Tempest above,
Repulse wrote: as a lily pad for a ASW Merlin in UK and Atlantic waters has great value.

I agree with this one, too, though surely there is more value in the SAR role, considering how far out the UK obligation zone stretches out in the Atlantic
- not sure if the MPAs can drop life rafts, or does that job still need a Herc to be called out?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 28 May 2020, 08:51

From "https://twitter.com/RNASYeovilton/status/1265902214268235776"

HMS Tamar with Wildcat landing (and re-fueling). Beautiful shot!

Image
Image

Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 28 May 2020, 08:59

The Superstructure plating looks AWFULLY thin!

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RAF>FAN » 28 May 2020, 11:53

Looks like canvas. Like an old "Stringbag" plane.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby serge750 » 28 May 2020, 11:54

Definatly would not want to see that in your new car :lol:

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clivestonehouse1
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby clivestonehouse1 » 28 May 2020, 12:09

The thinner plating was a direct result of experiences from the Falklands war.
It was found that bombs and missiles caused far less damage if they just punched through (of course unless they hit critical areas) rather than detonating against thicker plates.
HMS Plymouth took four bomb strikes which failed to detonate and after rapid repairs was operational again after only six days.
Her rapid turnaround was primarily due to the bombs hitting thinner deck areas.

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serge750
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby serge750 » 28 May 2020, 12:17

Did not know that, thanks for the imformation :thumbup:

dmereifield
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 28 May 2020, 14:26

So thinner seems to mean less damage to the hull, but what about the crew?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby jimthelad » 28 May 2020, 15:33

Doesnt matter either way if it detonates. The thermobaric effect would be catastrophic unless you have Krupps cemented steel. Even then most modern ASM have a binary shaped charge.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 28 May 2020, 15:46

Thicker plates is good for ballistic protection, which is the rationale of Dutch Holland-class OPV using thicker steel for its hull. The reason why they are so heavy is partly because of this.

But, as no export nor follow on design with similar concept is there, I suppose drawback was non-negligible = need more fuel to steam.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 28 May 2020, 15:56

Looking at HMS Tamar twitter feed, "https://twitter.com/hms_tamar".

They have really really nice photos there. Great work. To name a few ...

It is worth seeing the original large scale images. Followings are all "small" version.

ImageImageImage


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