UK Defence Forum

SKB wrote:Just did a quick images search, didn't find a single pic of a Merlin on a T45....

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... s-defender

On another note, I found this neat video of a Merlin conducting helicopter in-flight refueling with HMS Duncan.

The Armchair Soldier wrote:

SKB wrote:Just did a quick images search, didn't find a single pic of a Merlin on a T45....

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... s-defender

On another note, I found this neat video of a Merlin conducting helicopter in-flight refueling with HMS Duncan.

Why is the Merlin not conducting refuelling while on the deck of Duncan ,it big enough for a Chinook helicopter?
It all looks a bit iffy, could under stand if was a river class or T23.

Practice. Say it's armed and on asw mission, maybe more efficient to in-flight refuel?

Merlin on T45 is not certified (=tested and verified, all handling issues understood and well documented), I understand. So, it "cannot" land. In emergency, they surely will, very easily. Also, if they decided to do so, I think they need only 2-3 months for testing and certification, as most of the documents/manual can be copy-and-pasted from T23's ones.

I do not know if HMS Clyde is certified, nor River B2s will be.

And anyway, T45 will not carry Merlin, after the 2 big CVs came. We do not have enough Merlin to even fill CVF and 8 T23/T26s. Better to spend money on testing 2 Wildcat handling on a T45 (which was already done), or 1 Scan Eagle system (with 4-5 units) and a Wildcat.

marktigger wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Mark-san.
You mean RN can go with only 30 helos?
Even if they are all "multi purpose" Merlin, 30 will not be enough, I think.

depends largely on size of fleet. However there are long term savings that can be had having a single helicopter in service. That might encourage some investment in more Merlin

Yeah, like that will ever gonna happen...

In Flight Refueling is faster than landing and fueling on deck. If the helicopter is on a search pattern, ASW or otherwise, and is taking on fuel to continue patroling it will not land, but take up fuel in hovering.

The first Merlin deployment on a Type 45 was on HMS Defender in 2013. https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... s-defender

The primary reason for in flight refueling is if the flight deck is fouled for some reason (like another helo sitting on it). Or practicing for it.

The T45's deck not being certified for Merlin would be another valid reason.

Has zero to do with speed of refueling. Simpler & safer if the helo lands first. KISS.

It was a question to accompany the rush to let’s bin wildcat rumour. I believe there is no operational clearance for merlin on type 45 due to some issues being identified.

The first Merlin deployment on a Type 45 was on HMS Defender in 2013. https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... s-defender[/quote]

Some pictures

http://www.fleetairarmoa.org/news/merlin-meets-defender

Personnel recovery HC4

Any background on this?

Presumably this is what they're building up for the carriers with the Marines?

What are they expecting to refuel it with? do we also have to forward potion a C-130 everywhere the carriers go?

abc123 wrote:

marktigger wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Mark-san.
You mean RN can go with only 30 helos?
Even if they are all "multi purpose" Merlin, 30 will not be enough, I think.

depends largely on size of fleet. However there are long term savings that can be had having a single helicopter in service. That might encourage some investment in more Merlin

Yeah, like that will ever gonna happen...

who knows there is occasional flashes of common sense from government

Why the refuelling probe? We don't have anything to refuel from.

c130J I'm sure could mysteriously get the capability as could the A400m and I'm sure our NATO allies will helip

Smokey wrote:Personnel recovery HC4

Navy/RM has always been the logical service for this

Little J wrote:Why the refuelling probe? We don't have anything to refuel from.

USMC Osprey ?

marktigger wrote:

abc123 wrote:

marktigger wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Mark-san.
You mean RN can go with only 30 helos?
Even if they are all "multi purpose" Merlin, 30 will not be enough, I think.

depends largely on size of fleet. However there are long term savings that can be had having a single helicopter in service. That might encourage some investment in more Merlin

Yeah, like that will ever gonna happen...

who knows there is occasional flashes of common sense from government

Considering that they have bought 60 Chinhooks instead of Merlins that's hard to believe. Mind you, I'm not against Chinhooks, that's great helicopter with important role. But does BA really needs 60 of them? Wouldn't say 30 or 40 be enough? And spend the rest of the money to buy cheaper ( and British produced ) Merlins.

Little J wrote:Why the refuelling probe? We don't have anything to refuel from.

Why not? It can't hurt...

marktigger wrote:

Smokey wrote:Personnel recovery HC4

Navy/RM has always been the logical service for this

JPR is more than a helicopter with some booties in the boot. The responsibility is a Joint Force one, so will be dependant on the mission. Trained JPR specific personnel is often the issue, as when you need to stand up Mission Commanders, On Scene Commanders, Rescue Mission Commander etc (I'm sure there are a few extra Commanders thrown in for good measure...) the qualification and training burden can get quite high. Great that it is getting looked at again.

I know the E3 crews trained a lot to command JPR/CSAR in the 90s, although I imagine that experience has gone now.

As an aside it is called PR in NATO, leading to a UK Media Comms Officer to find himself quickly out of his depth when I was last in a HQ. Is there a PR Officer anywhere?.......

marktigger wrote:c130J I'm sure could mysteriously get the capability as could the A400m and I'm sure our NATO allies will helip

When the merlin did its flight trials air to air refueling was done over eskmales range. Had good view from army range safety craft rsc 7713 it was a c130 j. Even if they have binned the kit the airframe would have the pipe work.

indeid wrote:

marktigger wrote:

Smokey wrote:Personnel recovery HC4

Navy/RM has always been the logical service for this

JPR is more than a helicopter with some booties in the boot. The responsibility is a Joint Force one, so will be dependant on the mission. Trained JPR specific personnel is often the issue, as when you need to stand up Mission Commanders, On Scene Commanders, Rescue Mission Commander etc (I'm sure there are a few extra Commanders thrown in for good measure...) the qualification and training burden can get quite high. Great that it is getting looked at again.

I know the E3 crews trained a lot to command JPR/CSAR in the 90s, although I imagine that experience has gone now.

As an aside it is called PR in NATO, leading to a UK Media Comms Officer to find himself quickly out of his depth when I was last in a HQ. Is there a PR Officer anywhere?.......

I know that but given the naval medics have always had to be much more skilled than their Army or airforce counterparts, SAR crews in the navy always had divers. Add pilots and aircrew who working in adverse conditions is basic and Highly trained covering part the Navy had the better skill set to start with before you start adding to it.

abc123 wrote:

marktigger wrote:

abc123 wrote:

marktigger wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Mark-san.
You mean RN can go with only 30 helos?
Even if they are all "multi purpose" Merlin, 30 will not be enough, I think.

depends largely on size of fleet. However there are long term savings that can be had having a single helicopter in service. That might encourage some investment in more Merlin

Yeah, like that will ever gonna happen...

who knows there is occasional flashes of common sense from government

Considering that they have bought 60 Chinhooks instead of Merlins that's hard to believe. Mind you, I'm not against Chinhooks, that's great helicopter with important role. But does BA really needs 60 of them? Wouldn't say 30 or 40 be enough? And spend the rest of the money to buy cheaper ( and British produced ) Merlins.

when the Merlin was procured for the RAF the aircraft they wanted and sulked cause they didn't get it was the Super Puma/Cougar then they tried to play the media game for demands for more chinooks.

marktigger wrote:

abc123 wrote:

marktigger wrote:

abc123 wrote:

marktigger wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Mark-san.
You mean RN can go with only 30 helos?
Even if they are all "multi purpose" Merlin, 30 will not be enough, I think.

depends largely on size of fleet. However there are long term savings that can be had having a single helicopter in service. That might encourage some investment in more Merlin

Yeah, like that will ever gonna happen...

who knows there is occasional flashes of common sense from government

Considering that they have bought 60 Chinhooks instead of Merlins that's hard to believe. Mind you, I'm not against Chinhooks, that's great helicopter with important role. But does BA really needs 60 of them? Wouldn't say 30 or 40 be enough? And spend the rest of the money to buy cheaper ( and British produced ) Merlins.

when the Merlin was procured for the RAF the aircraft they wanted and sulked cause they didn't get it was the Super Puma/Cougar then they tried to play the media game for demands for more chinooks.

Well media plays and wishes are one thing, interests of national economy are something completely different. And anyway, why not have them as part of AAC instead of RAF?

Because the RAF don't think the AAC are capable of supporting them. But given they are part of joint helicopter frce

marktigger wrote:Because the RAF don't think the AAC are capable of supporting them. But given they are part of joint helicopter frce

Well if they can support the Apaches...