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Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 06:56
by inch
how realistic is the prospect of any more sales to anybody , or is that it for the typhoon ?
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:02
by Defiance
inch wrote:how realistic is the prospect of any more sales to anybody , or is that it for the typhoon ?
There's the usual suspect - Saudi B2, or an Omani B2 in the future. Still involved in Belgium/Finland/Malaysia/UAE/Canada at various levels of realism of prospect.
I'm interested in Belgium, Typhoon's the dark horse IMO.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 09:47
by shark bait
Is is Canada prospect a little closer now? They're pissed off a Boeing and already cancelled an F35 order.
The Qatar deal is a big deal, not just for BAE's production lines, but also training lines, missile production and joint operations with the RAF all confirmed, plus options for new Hawks!
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:23
by inch
I thought canadia was trying to get f18 from other places ie second hand ,I just don't think they up for typhoon more like rafale if its going that way just my own opinion tho ,would love to be proved wrong of course. being greedy but would have thought Qatar gone for 36 like the rafale and f15
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:37
by Defiance
shark bait wrote:Is is Canada prospect a little closer now? They're pissed off a Boeing and already cancelled an F35 order.
Not really, we'll see how the competition develops when they issue any RFIs/RFPs. Personal suspicion is it'll be second hand Aussie F-18's to keep them ticking over until 'well, we looked at everything, I guess we
have to buy F-35 AND it's cheaper now, isn't that swell?'.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:43
by RetroSicotte
It would be desperately ironic for Belgium not to go for Typhoon.
The nexus of the EU itself not going with the EU fighter to show its support of the group it flagships?
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:49
by marktigger
24 for qatar
http://www.forces.net/news/qatar-agrees ... er-jets-uk
with reference to Alarm it would be good to see Alarm go back into production or a Version of meteor
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:58
by Little J
Canada have gone for old Australia FA-18's, IMHO if they wanted typhoon they would have put the rfi out sooner.
Would be nice to be proved wrong
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 11:37
by Defiance
Little J wrote:Canada have gone for old Australia FA-18's, IMHO if they wanted typhoon they would have put the rfi out sooner.
Would be nice to be proved wrong
They're meant to be announcing a fighter competition next week (formal tender 2019, downselect mid-2020's*). Aussie Hornets are a treatment, not a cure, of their problems.
*does mean realistically Typhoon needs some more of the near-term opportunities to come off.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 11:58
by Little J
Defiance wrote: Aussie Hornets are a treatment, not a cure, of their problems.
*does mean realistically Typhoon needs some more of the near-term opportunities to come off.
Agreed (should have made the point in my post).
I do think they (and Belgium) should go for typhoon but I have a feeling that they want to be on jsf bandwagon... Even though it's more plane than they would ever really need.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 12:06
by shark bait
I suspect Typhoon is only a serious contender for nations that aren't allowed to buy the F35, meaning if the Saudi's get their way the last hope of another big Typhoon order disappears.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 12:13
by RetroSicotte
I don't see a reference to Alarm in the news post? Maybe I'm just missing it :p
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 12:21
by inch
you could be right on that score shark bait, its going to be out of date soon or should I put it like there is going to be a lot more capable planes around cheaper and poss more options maybe in a few years time so I don't blame Canada buying old f18 for an interim ,typhoon ok when we put into service 2003 even that was late but its nearly 15yrs down the line for raf planes ,so introducing it new now for Canada maybe not, I think wait and get the new kid on the block whatever that is is the best way to go for them
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 12:41
by shark bait
I wouldn't put it down to Typhoon being old though, there is still a lot of life left to exploit from Typhoon. I would say the allure of the big American stealth project is too strong, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway being examples of that.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:10
by RetroSicotte
The news keeps rolling:
Leonardo readies Captor-E next phase, Kuwaiti Eurofighter assembly
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/digi ... hase-kuwa/
Relevant bit:
The first phase of test flights for the Leonardo AESA radar, which included unpowered and powered flights in the UK, wrapped up earlier this year with ‘excellent results’, according Alastair Morrison, SVP radar & advanced targeting at Leonardo Airborne and Space Systems.
‘There have been some really good long-range tracking results and we have been able to test the radar’s Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mode as well,’ he explained.
The next stage will see a second Captor-E flight test asset – also known as an instrumented production aircraft (IPA) – begin flights in Germany ‘very shortly’. According to Eurofighter, this will utilise IPA 8, a German-built test aircraft.
‘Currently we’ve been working with the first asset in the UK, having the second asset will allow us to run multiple programmes in parallel,’ said Morrison.
The next 12 months will see Leonardo perform a series of ‘high intensity’ flight trials with incremental software updates to enable the required capability – known as the Phase 3 Enhancement (P3E) standard - to be available for the first deliveries to the Kuwait Air Force.
The hardware has ‘an enormous amount of potential’ for future enhancements, said Morrison, owing to the amount of power it can generate because of its large antenna. Extra capabilities such as communications, passive use, electronic attack and advanced surface tracking techniques could also be on the cards in the future.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:27
by Gabriele
The resemblance of that report to articles dared 2015 is amazing... This radar better be awesome, because it is taking ages.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:34
by Cooper
Gabriele wrote:This radar better be awesome, because it is taking ages.
Its also completely unnecessary, the current radar on Typhoon is more than good enough but the demand for AESA was simply a case of BAE responding to an extra bullet point on the Rafale's sales literature.
..and given the opportunity for further export sales of the Typhoon is now very limited, I can't see it being adopted by the RAF in any great numbers, any time soon.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 16:04
by Defiance
Cooper wrote:Gabriele wrote:This radar better be awesome, because it is taking ages.
Its also completely unnecessary, the current radar on Typhoon is more than good enough but the demand for AESA was simply a case of BAE responding to an extra bullet point on the Rafale's sales literature.
..and given the opportunity for further export sales of the Typhoon is now very limited, I can't see it being adopted by the RAF in any great numbers, any time soon.
This is incredibly wide of the mark. You can accomplish
lots more things with CAPTOR-E than you can with the -M (there are reasons the rest of the world have made the transition) and the RAF are one of the more vocal quarters about getting hold of it.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 16:13
by mr.fred
Insofar as I understand it, CAPTOR-E is substantially better than the CAPTOR-M, but CAPTOR-M doesn't surrender much, if anything, to other AESA radars that may be available.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 18:34
by RetroSicotte
There is no-one on this forum who can quantitively state the Captor-M against any AESA radar.
There is not enough information for or against around, period. Anything else is just vague hearsay and wishes.
What we can and do know, is that every single major nation in the world has clearly seen something in AESA, and is hurrying for it in as many forms as possible; because it brings a huge quantity of unique capabilities that old radars simply cannot accomplish. The most important being resistance to modern EW.
But moreso, older mechanical radars have a glass ceiling approaching. AESAs have decades of still developing capabilities. It's about future proofing as much as it is about an upgrade.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 19:12
by Lord Jim
I would say the Typhoon has a lot still going for it and can be considered far from old. It is far younger then the F-16 and F-15 et these are going to be in service for decades to come. As long as its users and especially the RAF keep investing in it it will serve well into the 2030s and beyond. I also have a feeling further orders will come along, the issue is whether there will be a production line open to meet them.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 22:54
by sunstersun
all depends on the saudi order really.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 23:30
by RetroSicotte
sunstersun wrote:all depends on the saudi order really.
And, apparently, the Germans...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germ ... SKBN1E52EK
Just saw this pop up on twitter.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 00:57
by sunstersun
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all four core countries to the typhoon program have their own assembly line?
Sure a large german order would keep sub component production alive, but we're talking about the BAE systems production line.
Re: Typhoon
Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 01:11
by RetroSicotte
The UK is the only one I think has enough of the industry to fully create one if it wanted. I don't believe Germany has that capability.