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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
141
52%
Kongsberg NSM
62
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
43
16%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 273

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Lord Jim » 11 Aug 2019, 04:59

Standby for a beating for not putting the above in the Australian thread even though its a good one :D

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 11 Aug 2019, 09:22

SKB wrote:This needs to be said....

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT A "NEWS ONLY" THREAD?
THIS T26 NEWS THREAD IS NOT THE PLACE FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION, GOSSIP, RUMOURS OR FOR SHIP REDESIGN FANTASISTS.

STOP IT. NOW.
:evil:

If you see news about Royal Navy T26, then fine, post it here. For Aussie and Canadian T26's post it in the relevant country threads.
If you want to discuss escorts, then do it in the Future Escorts thread. Not here. Please. :roll:


AND AGAIN WE HAVE MODS IT IS THERE JOB NOT YOURS TO SAY WHAT CAN BE SAID ON A THREAD IF YOU AND OTHERS DO NOT LIKE THE A THEAD IS GOING SEND A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO THE MOD TO HIGH LIGHT YOUR OPINTION AS THIS IS NO MORE HELPFUL THAN THE POSTS ABOVE

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 13 Aug 2019, 14:21

Not convinced of the factual accuracy of this piece but the insinuation that New Zealand is lining up for an order of 3 Type 26's is very interesting.....if true.

If only the T26's really could be 'dumbed down' to a £250m general purpose frigate. Little truth in that statement I suspect.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-s ... -36vl3w0bv

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 13 Aug 2019, 14:49

Poiuytrewq wrote:Not convinced of the factual accuracy of this piece but the insinuation that New Zealand is lining up for an order of 3 Type 26's is very interesting.....if true.

If only the T26's really could be 'dumbed down' to a £250m general purpose frigate. Little truth in that statement I suspect.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-s ... -36vl3w0bv


I can't get beyond the firewall, but I wonder if it has anything to do with this article :-


BAE Systems to start production of Hunter-class frigate for Australian Navy in 2020

August 2019 News Navy Naval Maritime Defense Industry
Posted On Saturday, 10 August 2019 14:40

BAE Systems plans to start the production of the Hunter-class frigate for Australian Navy in 2020. On 29 June 2018, BAE Systems Australia has been awarded a contract by the Australian Government that provides the framework for the design and build of nine Hunter Class frigates.

BAE Systems Australia has confirmed a potential move to position the company's Hunter-class frigate design for the Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN).

The Hunter Class frigate incorporates years of investment in digital design techniques and builds on the UK Royal Navy’s formidable pedigree in anti-submarine warfare and extensive operational experience.It will be constructed on a specifically developed acoustically quiet hull and features unique sonar capabilities, modular digital design and open systems architecture to facilitate through-life support and upgrades as new technology develops.

The Hunter Class frigate has been designed for maximum versatility and flexibility in operational roles, from humanitarian and disaster relief operations to high-intensity warfare. The first three ships of the Hunter class will proudly carry the names of three major Australian regions, all with strong historical maritime and naval ties. HMA Ships Flinders (II) (SA region named for explorer Captain Matthew Flinders - first circumnavigation of Australia and identified it as a continent); Hunter (NSW region named for Vice-Admiral John Hunter – first fleet Captain and 2nd Governor of NSW); and Tasman (state and sea named for explorer Abel Tasman – first known European explorer to reach Tasmania, New Zealand and Fiji).

The integrated Mission Bay and Hangar is capable of supporting multiple helicopters, unmanned vehicles, boats, mission loads and disaster relief stores. A launcher can be provided for fixed wing UAV operation and the Flight Deck is capable of landing a Chinook helicopter for transport of embarked forces.

Main armament of the Hunter-class frigate will include a 5in, 62-calibre Mk 45 Mod 4 naval gun system and a Mk 41 vertical launch system fitted on the bow section of the ship. It will feature weapon mounts to house two 30mm short-range guns and two 20mm close-in weapon systems.

The Hunter-class frigate can also be armed with MU90 torpedoes, Standard Missile 2 (SM2) and Evolved SeaSparrow Missiles (ESSM). It can also be fitted with other advanced anti-ship missiles and a Nulka decoy launch system.

BAE Systems to start production of Hunter class frigate for Australian Navy in 2020 925 002

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 13 Aug 2019, 15:00

From today's London Times:

It’s full steam ahead for new digital-first naval frigates

Versatile, agile and quiet, BAE’s technically advanced Type 26 ship is a rapid export success
Robert Lea, Industrial Editor

It’s only two years since first steel was cut on HMS Glasgow, Britain’s most advanced warship and one of eight Type 26 frigates ordered for the Royal Navy. In that time, the country has gone through four defence secretaries.

The ritual that begins a vessel’s construction process was performed on Glasgow in her home city by Sir Michael Fallon. For a man who cultivated a reputation for being a steady hand on the tiller, Sir Michael was dropped amid allegations that he was a little too handsy. Gavin Williamson, his replacement, was dropped for reportedly being too leaky and Penny Mordaunt for being insufficiently Brexity, leaving Ben Wallace, a former Scots Guard, at the helm.

Yet even Mr Wallace won’t be following in Sir Michael’s footsteps at the Govan shipyard tomorrow. The honours at a ceremonial cutting of steel for HMS Cardiff, the second Type 26 ship, will go to Anne-Marie Trevelyan, the new minister for defence procurement (the fifth such minister in three years and proof, if it were needed, that hers is an equally fast-moving brief).

Pride of place, though, goes to the Type 26 itself. With the 2,100 workers on the Clyde busy on the first batch of frigates, a three-strong order valued at £3.7 billion, and while their bosses at BAE Systems fret over an absence of continuity at the top of the Ministry of Defence, especially as the expected second batch of five more Type 26s has yet to be confirmed, the vessel at the centre of it all is already an export success.

Australia has signed up to BAE’s Type 26 design and will build nine of them as Hunter-class combat ships at BAE’s Adelaide yards. Canada will build 15 of the vessels under licence in Nova Scotia. New Zealand, it is reckoned, will sign up for as many as three. The only blot on the seascape is the Americans, who won’t be ordering despite the pledges of Boris Johnson when he was foreign secretary that he would be able arm-twist President Trump.

As Steve Timms, managing director BAE Naval Ships, acknowledged: “We thought we were only going to build eight and now we have thirty-two.”

The Type 26 is the successor to the Type 23 frigate, which first went into commission 30 years ago. One of those is HMS Montrose, which was deployed to the Strait of Hormuz recently in an attempt to protect UK-flagged shipping in the Persian Gulf.

The transition to the Type 26 will start when HMS Glasgow goes into service in the mid-2020s. Her main tasks will include searching for Russian submarines and defending Britain’s nuclear-armed submarine fleet. She also will sail in flotilla with the navy’s two new aircraft carriers and is designed for use in humanitarian missions.

Mr Timms, a 38-year BAE veteran, has been in charge of Govan’s Type 26 production since the turn of the year. “Type 26 is the most advanced, capable and versatile complex warship ever designed or built,” he said. “We are building a very quiet ship that accelerates, is very agile, which performs at pace.”

In oceans where it doesn’t want to be seen or heard, the 150m frigate claims a sonic footprint equivalent to a small fishing trawler.

It is the first time that BAE has built a boat digitally. In its web-enabled drawing office, costs and issues can be eliminated far earlier and a vessel existing in cyberspace can be redesigned by countries that want to install their own radar and weapons and sold to them before the steel is first cut.

This design technology, Mr Timms conceded, had “not been without its challenges” at a time when Govan had struggled to build on time and on budget the Royal Navy’s order for offshore patrol vehicles. “It has been challenging because capability [people and management] had been lost in the last decade,” Mr Timms said. “We understand that and understand, too, there had been supply chain obsolescence.”

While Govan’s future appears assured, there are greater prizes. Built in 57 modules, the Type 26 is designed to be adaptable all the way up to incorporating the sort of firepower that would make it the blueprint to succeed the Royal Navy Type 45 fleet of destroyers. Conversely, it is a design that can be dumbed-down to the level of a general purpose frigate envisaged by the ministry as the new discount £250 million-a-time Type 31e boats.

“We have a generational opportunity allowing us to take on apprentices with the promise of two decades of work ahead of them,” Mr Timms said. “This is not something we have been able to say for a few years.”

Behind the story
They have been building boats on the Clyde for centuries (Robert Lea writes). When the Industrial Revolution began, Govan helped to make Clydeside a global powerhouse.

As a port facing the Americas, Glasgow was already big in tobacco and cotton when the city fathers dredged the Upper Clyde to bring in the largest ships. With local iron ore and coal aplenty, Glasgow became one of the steelworking fulcrums of the empire.

In the 1850s, John Elder produced the genius of the marine steam compound engine, allowing ships to travel farther on less fuel. He also was the father of the Fairfields yard — Govan as now — pioneering integrated shipbuilding, constructing the fastest ships.

The postwar history of Govan, however, is the story of British shipbuilding. Little work and Far East competition ended up in the near-collapse of the industry, the amalgamation of fellow strugglers, nationalisation in the 1970s and then privatisation in the 1980s. Govan and Scotstoun, its downstream sister yard, found their way into the hands of BAE Systems via Kvaerner and Marconi.

Govan’s latest ships claim to be 80 per cent-built from the UK supply chain, with Rolls-Royce engines, David Brown gearboxes from Huddersfield, GE motors from Rugby and half the steel by value coming from British mills. Of Govan’s possible future building warships for England in a Scotland outside the UK, a spokesman for the yard says: “Critical skills are here in Govan. You cannot just pick this up and drop it somewhere else.”

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 14 Aug 2019, 12:06


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 14 Aug 2019, 15:13

Further to the above, official government article :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/firs ... ms-cardiff

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 14 Aug 2019, 16:53


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 14 Aug 2019, 17:26


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SKB
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 14 Aug 2019, 17:33

First steel cut for second T26, HMS Cardiff
Defence Procurement Minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan cut the steel for the UK’s newest warship at a ceremony at BAE Systems’ shipyard in Govan on the River Clyde.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby bobp » 14 Aug 2019, 22:45

8 years to completion seems like a long time for 1 ship.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 14 Aug 2019, 23:55

bobp wrote:8 years to completion seems like a long time for 1 ship.


You can thank Geo Osborne for that.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby dmereifield » 15 Aug 2019, 00:03

Ron5 wrote:
bobp wrote:8 years to completion seems like a long time for 1 ship.


You can thank Geo Osborne for that.


We've got a long list of things to thank him for

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby seaspear » 15 Aug 2019, 02:44

This is of course an old article but it seems to suggest that there were several reasons to the time scale of construction
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/buildi ... 6-frigate/
It may be correct that a super factory could of produced the frigates at a quicker rate ,but were there sufficient funds to enable this?
Would building the ships over a longer period have protected jobs , if for instance all the ships were produced quickly and there was not any follow on orders for the super factory what happens ?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 Aug 2019, 06:50

Built in 57 modules, the Type 26 is designed to be adaptable all the way up to incorporating the sort of firepower that would make it the blueprint to succeed the Royal Navy Type 45 fleet of destroyers.

seaspear wrote:if for instance all the ships were produced quickly and there was not any follow on orders

No worries, it has "all" been planned
... that is to keep the yard alive; howabout the gaps in the RN line-up?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 15 Aug 2019, 06:52

seaspear wrote:This is of course an old article but it seems to suggest that there were several reasons to the time scale of construction
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/buildi ... 6-frigate/
It may be correct that a super factory could of produced the frigates at a quicker rate ,but were there sufficient funds to enable this?
Would building the ships over a longer period have protected jobs , if for instance all the ships were produced quickly and there was not any follow on orders for the super factory what happens ?
Agree. T26 MUST be slowly build to save the day until T45 replacement to be budgeted, and there is a good rationale to build it slowly.

So, what is important is to build it CHEAP even with slow speed (no frigate factory, but many modern investments can take place), and open architecture for accepting modern equipments (equipments can be modernized).

[EDIT] If build rate is an issue, T31e is only bad. With the 1.5B GBP allocated for T31e, 2 T26 can be added. Reflecting it in the Batch-2 production of 5 hulls, a 18-months drumbeat (if true) can be 13-months drumbeat to make it 7. With using CL, FM, or even H&W (if survive) to build some of the modules, it is doable, I think.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Gabriele » 15 Aug 2019, 09:06

2 years to build those blocks there. Impressive... but not in the right way.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 15 Aug 2019, 09:12

Gabriele wrote:2 years to build those blocks there. Impressive... but not in the right way.
I agree, extremely impressive. Having to wait another 6 years will just be the icing on the cake....

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Caribbean » 15 Aug 2019, 10:00

To put it in perspective, HMS Daring took around 3 years from first steel to float out and another 3.5 years to commissioning. The final one (HMS Duncan) took 3 years 8 months to float out and another 2 years 11 months to commissioning. However, going from memory, I think BAE had a work force around three times the size at the time and could handle five ships in concurrent build. I think they can only handle three now (with maybe a fourth if all the blocks were built elsewhere).
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 15 Aug 2019, 10:09

Well, I know a certain place where there's a 200 metre long ship hall where 149.9m long T26's could have ideally been built.... :roll:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.80470 ... !1e3?hl=en

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Caribbean » 15 Aug 2019, 10:21

Good point. Is there anyone left to work in it?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby tomuk » 15 Aug 2019, 13:37

SKB wrote:Well, I know a certain place where there's a 200 metre long ship hall where 149.9m long T26's could have ideally been built.... :roll:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.80470 ... !1e3?hl=en


Or what about the following facility it apparatly has a long history of building ships.

https://goo.gl/maps/t6UeT9UUeKqkxo6Y7

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby clivestonehouse1 » 15 Aug 2019, 14:05

You could go on forever with lists of yards that could build ships but it's the skilled workforce that's lacking.
Belfast & Devonport both have docks big enough but without trained bodies to do the work then the idea is moot.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 17 Aug 2019, 20:26


(Royal Navy) 15th August 2019
The Type 26 Global Combat Ship is a 21st Century warship that will replace the Type 23 frigate as the workhorse of the Fleet, undertaking the Royal Navy's three core roles - warfighting, maritime security and international engagement - on the world stage.
Discover more about the Type 26: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipm ... city-class

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 17 Aug 2019, 20:34


(STRN/Navy Lookout) 14th August 2019
BAE Systems promotional video focusing on the people, skills and teamwork involved in the Type 26 frigate project.


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