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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
140
52%
Kongsberg NSM
61
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
42
16%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 270

RetroSicotte
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RetroSicotte » 12 Jul 2019, 13:57

Would be excellent if so. Truly the Commonwealth frigate, if it won't be the Anglo Frigate due to the US and their choice :D

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SKB
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 12 Jul 2019, 14:06



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Pseudo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Pseudo » 12 Jul 2019, 18:31

Repulse wrote:New Zealand is potentially interested in two to three T26s after 2030 according to BAE speculation reported in the FT. I think they’ll struggle budget wise, but (and I know people disagree) this is where a UK subsidised order of ships built in the UK could work, especially if one of the three is for the RN forward based in NZ/Oz integrated into their navies.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.c ... 1c6ab5efd1

I'd have thought that FTI, PPA or even Type 31e would have been more suited to their requirements and budget.

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Repulse
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Repulse » 12 Jul 2019, 18:39

Pseudo, budget wise you are probably right, but I suspect they will try for the T26 first with scaled down weapons and towards the end of the build cycle where efficiency should be highest and per unit cost lowest.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

SW1
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SW1 » 12 Jul 2019, 18:47

The bigger consideration will be the maintenance and supportability rather than a unit cost. The fact New Zealand could leverage australian services in this regard will have a big bearing on making this an affordable option.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 12 Jul 2019, 18:54

This is why I would of preferred a design based off a scaled down T26, something like 130m by 19m 5,000t odd with a merlin flight deck and joint hanger mission space ( instead of larger mission bay ) instead of the current T31 set up.

Something like the above sharing as much of T26 design aspects as possible could of been a good spot for nations like New Zealand, Brazil, SA. I feel like it’s a missed opportunity for us really.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SW1 » 13 Jul 2019, 10:20

Jake1992 wrote:This is why I would of preferred a design based off a scaled down T26, something like 130m by 19m 5,000t odd with a merlin flight deck and joint hanger mission space ( instead of larger mission bay ) instead of the current T31 set up.

Something like the above sharing as much of T26 design aspects as possible could of been a good spot for nations like New Zealand, Brazil, SA. I feel like it’s a missed opportunity for us really.


Doing that of course means the air is free steel is cheap argument around size and cost is wrong. Which of course it is, to a point, in that it costs you more to build the ship but should be cheaper to maintain and upgrade over its life. Putting proper thru life costs front and centre for defence procurement is a novel concept.

If it really is build speed driving cost into the program then coming to some agreement between uk Canada and Australia about future major sub system purchases may allow cost to be reduced and production speeded up. Going to a sole type 26 surface combatant fleet and forgetting about type 31 would also help even if that means a reduction in overall traditional escort numbers

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jake1992 » 13 Jul 2019, 10:43

SW1 wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:This is why I would of preferred a design based off a scaled down T26, something like 130m by 19m 5,000t odd with a merlin flight deck and joint hanger mission space ( instead of larger mission bay ) instead of the current T31 set up.

Something like the above sharing as much of T26 design aspects as possible could of been a good spot for nations like New Zealand, Brazil, SA. I feel like it’s a missed opportunity for us really.


Doing that of course means the air is free steel is cheap argument around size and cost is wrong. Which of course it is, to a point, in that it costs you more to build the ship but should be cheaper to maintain and upgrade over its life. Putting proper thru life costs front and centre for defence procurement is a novel concept.

If it really is build speed driving cost into the program then coming to some agreement between uk Canada and Australia about future major sub system purchases may allow cost to be reduced and production speeded up. Going to a sole type 26 surface combatant fleet and forgetting about type 31 would also help even if that means a reduction in overall traditional escort numbers


I was thinking of more of family of designs based on the T26, the T26 it’s self, a smaller light frigate design ( for markets like NZ, SA, Brazil ) and a larger destroyer design ( for T45 type replacement )

The RNits self doesn’t have to by them ( even though I’d of preferred a light frigate base off the T26 instead of T31 ) but if the designs are in place it opens up different markets. As many have pointed out the T26 is too much ship and too higher cost for the likes of NZ but a light frigate based of the T26 keeping as much commonality as possible ( ie the bridge lay out, the hull form, weapons lay out ) would be spot on for them and other like them.

I just think it’s a missed opportunity with the rushed cheap T31 which is not enough for the light frigate market and too much for the covert market.

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Repulse
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Repulse » 13 Jul 2019, 12:04

SW1 wrote:Going to a sole type 26 surface combatant fleet and forgetting about type 31 would also help even if that means a reduction in overall traditional escort numbers


Agree with your main point, the T31 in its current form is a highway to nowhere, with little chance of export. I would though couple this with an evolution of the River Class (Avenger not Leander) so add a lower end forward presence capability.

As the Iranian conflict shows the world is getting more dangerous and complex - it is not clear that the UK can rely on its traditional European and US friends anymore to protect its interests also. I do see scope however for closer cooperation and integration with the RAN, RCN and RNZN.

Outside of UK EEZ / BOT defence and forward lower level surveillance, constabulary, training and HADR missions / commitments, the RN needs top tier “go anywhere” task groups, that can operate with or without allies (though obviously working with allies is the strong preference) to protect UK global interests. Having 16-18 T26/T45 warships is a must for this ambition - the T31s are nice to haves.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 13 Jul 2019, 16:18

WTF not one of the above posts has anything to do with this being a T26 News Only thread. Is it really to much to ask to adhere to this. Though I realise you all like to get your own points of view across, this is not the thread for it. :thumbdown:

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby seaspear » 14 Jul 2019, 07:57

With apologies to Joans if N.Z decides to acquire the type 26 there would be at least two places where it is being built ,should it be added to these runs it may effect the delivery schedule to those respective navies

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 14 Jul 2019, 09:06

seaspear wrote:With apologies to Joans if N.Z decides to acquire the type 26 there would be at least two places where it is being built ,should it be added to these runs it may effect the delivery schedule to those respective navies
The end of UK T26 build, around 2035-36 is a good coincidence with the need for RNZN ANZAC replacements. Also, it will be very nice, because I'm afraid UK will not be ready to start T45 replacement so early.

abc123
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby abc123 » 14 Jul 2019, 09:21

Do we agree that T26 will probably be the base for future T45 replacement?
With maybe problems about propulsion/power production if laser weapons replace missiles as AD weapons?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 14 Jul 2019, 14:36

Not a matter for this thread.


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