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Border Force Cutters.

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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shark bait
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby shark bait » 30 Oct 2016, 14:04

This is the original story about the trial; https://www.airmedandrescue.com/story/1544

Also watch keeper trialled a wartime mode on its radar at unmanned warrior, could also be useful observing British waters, feeding info into the border force for action.
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 30 Oct 2016, 14:07

shark bait wrote:This is the original story about the trial; https://www.airmedandrescue.com/story/1544
Thanks. So it is for SAR, not fishery nor anti-smuggler?

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 30 Oct 2016, 14:14

marktigger wrote:islander/defender would be a good option for short patrols.


No shortage of efforts to put sensors onto them: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/defender.htm

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby shark bait » 30 Oct 2016, 14:27

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Thanks. So it is for SAR, not fishery nor anti-smuggler?


Mostly yes, but will also be for security, and if that works well it may be expanded.
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby marktigger » 30 Oct 2016, 15:49

what sensors is the Jetream 41 carrying?

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby marktigger » 30 Oct 2016, 18:53

interesting piece on BA cutters checking fishing boats for illegal Labour/ Labour practices on tonights country file

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby marktigger » 10 Nov 2016, 13:19

following a group on facebook on "Retired" lifeboats its interesting to see how many are exported especially the Aruns....Now boats like that and their replacements given the arrival of the "Trent's" the border force should look at picking up some "Severn's"

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Caribbean » 04 Jul 2017, 00:46

This seems to have slipped past relatively unnoticed. The first of the Border Force 20m Rhibs went into service last October (though none listed as added since then) - HMCPV Eagle. Found the following Facebook page with some photos at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/AndyTLeePho ... 7327886402

Quote from a talk to a crewmember
"very interesting history, ex rescue boats carried aboard larger off shore vessels, some eight been bought, inside stripped out for now, but accommodation to be fitted"
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby shark bait » 04 Jul 2017, 08:33

Looks like a good addition.

Small local craft, perfect to counter the ad-hoc nature of smuggling. Could seal the deal with a low cost fixed wing aircraft, perhaps similar to what the police are beginning to operate. Would have a fairly tight system to locate and inspect suspicious activity then.
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Caribbean » 05 Aug 2017, 18:01

Just noticed this on the Border Force website

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... n-scotland

Wiki now lists four active South Boats / Delta 19m Coastal Patrol Vessels
HMC Eagle (2016)
HMC Nimrod (2016)
HMC Alert (2016)
HMC Active (2016)

South Boats link http://www.southboatsiow.com/vessels/ for those that are interested
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby KyleG » 05 Aug 2017, 22:39

marktigger wrote:following a group on facebook on "Retired" lifeboats its interesting to see how many are exported especially the Aruns....Now boats like that and their replacements given the arrival of the "Trent's" the border force should look at picking up some "Severn's"


The Trent-class is a bit older than the Severn-class, and is effectively a smaller version of the latter. Neither will be leaving the RNLI any time soon, the RNLI are currently working on replacing the remaining Tyne and Mersey-class boats with the Shannon class. After that production line is finished (good few years to go on that too) they may begin work on a Severn successor. I do agree though that RNLI designs would make good boats for the border force, in fact a prototype Tamar boat was sold on and operated by Kent Police for a number of years.

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 06 Aug 2017, 09:17

It was idiotic that we did not buy all the three (but just the Protector):

"Is the Border Force Protector a new vessel or has it got a history?

Actually this cutter which is new to the UK Border Force, had a previous 12 years of life with the Finnish Border Guard During a cost cutting exercise and changes to the Border Guards operations, the FBG decided to sell three ships (called Telkkä, Tavi and Tiira respectively)."

The Finns were idiots (too) when they placed the original order: the cutters had no ability whatsoever to operate in icy conditions (hmmm: a good part of the year :o ).

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby shark bait » 14 Aug 2017, 13:34

I was amazed to learn the RNLI design and manufacture their own boats, and amazing origination!
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby james k » 01 Sep 2017, 12:21

The RNzN might be selling off one or more of their 340 Ton Protector Class Inshore Patrol Vessels. Just the job for the UK Border Force.

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby RichardIC » 01 Sep 2017, 12:55

james k wrote:The RNzN might be selling off one or more of their 340 Ton Protector Class Inshore Patrol Vessels. Just the job for the UK Border Force.

Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee said the boats weren't "cutting it" in the rough waters surrounding the country.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78903319/navys-newest-patrol-boats-havent-made-it-to-sea-in-years-defence-force-admits

Sound ideal.

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Caribbean » 01 Sep 2017, 13:01

Swap a couple for a River B1?
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby james k » 01 Sep 2017, 14:58

I'm surprised you're not accusing me of lying about that as well. The boats were not "cutting it" in the seas off NZ which are somewhat rougher than those around the UK, so yes they might well be ideal for us when they've not matched someone else's requirements. Do you follow other people around trolling their comments regularly?


RichardIC wrote:
james k wrote:The RNzN might be selling off one or more of their 340 Ton Protector Class Inshore Patrol Vessels. Just the job for the UK Border Force.

Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee said the boats weren't "cutting it" in the rough waters surrounding the country.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78903319/navys-newest-patrol-boats-havent-made-it-to-sea-in-years-defence-force-admits

Sound ideal.

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 01 Sep 2017, 15:11

The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 01 Sep 2017, 15:52

It is based on Danish Osprey-50 design. Tennix in austral bought that design (actually, slightly improved Osprey-55 design) and sold 2 to Philippine, and 4 modified version to RNZN. Do anybody know how was the Osprey-55 around the Britain island? (There is "sister" ships in Greek as well).

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby james k » 01 Sep 2017, 18:45

The UK brought a NZ Protector Class? Which one. I thought Ice was a problem for the Protector OPV not the smaller IPV

ArmChairCivvy wrote:The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 01 Sep 2017, 20:21

james k wrote:The UK brought a NZ Protector Class? Which one. I thought Ice was a problem for the Protector OPV not the smaller IPV

ArmChairCivvy wrote:The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem


I was just trying to see how many legs I could pull... as this one
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... -coastline
was bought from Finland.
- they talk about launching after some minor modifications... like removing all armament, incl. depth charges

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby james k » 01 Sep 2017, 20:23

Ah different type of Protector. That one is Finnish but the ones I was talking about were New Zealand who have a smaller inshore class and a larger offshore class (which also have issues with top weight and ice).

Regards.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
james k wrote:The UK brought a NZ Protector Class? Which one. I thought Ice was a problem for the Protector OPV not the smaller IPV

ArmChairCivvy wrote:The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem


I was just trying to see how many legs I could pull... as this one
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... -coastline
was bought from Finland.
- they talk about launching after some minor modifications... like removing all armament, incl. depth charges

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MCA Coastguard Vessels

Postby james k » 02 Sep 2017, 20:18

Does anyone know what vessels the MCA still operate and how they differ from Border Force?

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/det ... MCA_HUNTER

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 26 Nov 2018, 09:57

marktigger wrote:
shark bait wrote:
marktigger wrote:For covering areas round the SW (Dorset, Devon and Cornwall) the Rivers are good


The rivers aren't good, they're too big and slow to counter the small ad-hoc nature of smugglers. Aircraft and smaller faster craft are a more suitable response.


Border Force cutters been busy lately https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-46296249
- looks (from the text) that these are enterprising middle class, using their 'devices' to flee an oppressive dictatorship in Iran
- like the MP for Ashford says, effort should be put in tracing back to the point of entry the criminal gangs making hay and dismantling them. Any paying customer will do, once they have perfected the network... and that includes terrorists of all shades and colours

As marktigger further said about Rivers "but they have the sea keeping capability to stay on station in more exposed waters and they do carry RIBS for intercepts." so they do have their place in the mix as the Channel can get fairly choppy

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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 28 Nov 2018, 11:02

ArmChairCivvy wrote:using their 'devices'
Today's Telegraph says that that 'was in a literal meaning' ie. no other navigation than mobile phones, when they set out.

But more to the (thread's headline) point, the Home Secretary says that the allocation of the five cutters is less than optimal:
- as one needs to be kept in stand-by
- the other four are 50/50 between the Med and the Channel


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