Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

[Jackstar]

Ajax & Warrior.

[mr.fred]

Tests on the BvS 210 garnered a maximum of 104db(A) (357 seconds). If anyone knows of any other examples that would be interesting.

Quoting myself, I know, but I found some more examples:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA446765.pdf
An M113A2 and an engineering vehicle based on it, registering over 117db(A), see the tables and graphs at the end.

[Dahedd]

I know Ajax is technically more advanced but how can this be z thing. ASCOD 2 engineering, command & 105 light tank variants off to the Philippines from the Spanish factory. We allegedly couldn't even reverse up a step at kme stage.

[Jackstar]

[O5C4R]

Quick question(s) if I may - something I've been thinking over, but its got to the point where I actually need to know now !

I understand that Ares is designated as an APC and Warrior an IFV.

Firstly what is the largest caliber RWS that could operate on an Ares in theory ?

And secondly with that caliber fitted how would it compare to Warrior as it is and will be until it's OSD as an 'IFV' ?

I look at them both and just wonder what's stopping us from using Ares rather than persisting with Warrior ?

Thank you for your time.

[RunningStrong]

Quick question(s) if I may - something I've been thinking over, but its got to the point where I actually need to know now !

I understand that Ares is designated as an APC and Warrior an IFV.

Firstly what is the largest caliber RWS that could operate on an Ares in theory ?

And secondly with that caliber fitted how would it compare to Warrior as it is and will be until it's OSD as an 'IFV' ?

I look at them both and just wonder what's stopping us from using Ares rather than persisting with Warrior ?

Thank you for your time.

How big an RWS? Well there are low-recoil 30mm systems available that claim to use a conventional RWS mounting interface.

And ARES internally only sits a Driver, Commander and 4 dismounts. So it's not got enough seats to be an IFV. So would need an interior redesign. Some scatter cushions, a new lick of paint.

[O5C4R]

Ares has room for more seats if the equipment racks are moved out no ?

[sol]

Quick question(s) if I may - something I've been thinking over, but its got to the point where I actually need to know now !

I understand that Ares is designated as an APC and Warrior an IFV.

Firstly what is the largest caliber RWS that could operate on an Ares in theory ?

And secondly with that caliber fitted how would it compare to Warrior as it is and will be until it's OSD as an 'IFV' ?

I look at them both and just wonder what's stopping us from using Ares rather than persisting with Warrior ?

Thank you for your time.

Well technically yes, Ares could be optimised to carry more troops and it should be possible to put some remote turret like RT60 for example and use as IFV. But for this it would require new orders as current Ares fleet is intended to use in 4 Ajax regiment for specialist teams like anti-tanks, combat engineers and dismounted recce teams. Basically every Ajax regiment would require some 20+ Ares vehicles which would cover for the majority of 93 ordered. It would also require number of other variants, like Athena, Apollo & Atlas which would also should be taken from those intended for other units. If those vehicles are just taken from their intended units without replacement it would have serious impact on those units capability.

Logically, if UK wants new IFV, Ajax based vehicle would be natural choice. But that would require new orders, and considering how sensitive and controversial whole Ajax program is, it would not be easy to do it unless Ajax really prove to be as good as the Army is expecting it to be. And that would require time, since Ajax is still not in service.

But also, if UK is to order additional Ajax for IFV replacement, would Ajax/Ares be the best choice? Would something that is already on market (AS21 Redback, Lynx, CV90MkIV) or something that is expected to arrive until the end of the decade (US OMFV or CV90MkV) would be better solution. After all, UK should have plan/strategy for it, and would probably require time to secure enough funds for such project.

[RunningStrong]

Ares has room for more seats if the equipment racks are moved out no ?

There are IFV variants based on the ASCOD chassis, yes. What British -spec'd equipment/stores would need to be removed to accommodate additional seats is an exercise in itself. ARES isn't carrying any particularly specialist equipment and things aren't carried for the sake of it.

[Poiuytrewq]

Ares has room for more seats if the equipment racks are moved out no ?

There are IFV variants based on the ASCOD chassis, yes. What British -spec'd equipment/stores would need to be removed to accommodate additional seats is an exercise in itself. ARES isn't carrying any particularly specialist equipment and things aren't carried for the sake of it.

If the funds turn up for a direct Warrior replacement it needs to be as close to zero risk as possible with a completely off the shelf vehicle.

No messing around this time.

[Tempest414]

Ares has room for more seats if the equipment racks are moved out no ?

There are IFV variants based on the ASCOD chassis, yes. What British -spec'd equipment/stores would need to be removed to accommodate additional seats is an exercise in itself. ARES isn't carrying any particularly specialist equipment and things aren't carried for the sake of it.

If the funds turn up for a direct Warrior replacement it needs to be as close to zero risk as possible with a completely off the shelf vehicle.

No messing around this time.

But it again comes down to the core requirement and size of the army as said all over this site now at this time we only have enough Artillery , Logistics & Engineer units for 6 Brigades and we can only do this if we cut the Deep Recce Fires BCT

So with this in mind as said we really need set out what each divisions primary task is this in tern will lead to what vehicles are needed

If we stick to say 1 x Cavalry , 3 x infantry , 1 x Artillery , 1 x logistics , 1 Engineer regiments as a brigade layout then as said we enough for 6 brigades plus 1 extra Cavalry unit and 3 extra infantry units meaning we would have to raise 1 more of each of the supporting units to form a 7th brigade

[RunningStrong]

If the funds turn up for a direct Warrior replacement it needs to be as close to zero risk as possible with a completely off the shelf vehicle.

No messing around this time.

Then that means no Bowman/Morpheus. No UK content.

[Poiuytrewq]

If the funds turn up for a direct Warrior replacement it needs to be as close to zero risk as possible with a completely off the shelf vehicle.

No messing around this time.

Then that means no Bowman/Morpheus. No UK content.

It also means an APC delivered that just works, UK Comms can be added without too much complication.

[Tempest414]

I don't see us getting to an all tracked division I could see a all tracked armoured Brigade this would need 200 more Ares APC' s with say a RT-60 mount but it would need the CTA 40mm or logistics would be bitch

[O5C4R]

Quick question(s) if I may - something I've been thinking over, but its got to the point where I actually need to know now !

I understand that Ares is designated as an APC and Warrior an IFV.

Firstly what is the largest caliber RWS that could operate on an Ares in theory ?

And secondly with that caliber fitted how would it compare to Warrior as it is and will be until it's OSD as an 'IFV' ?

I look at them both and just wonder what's stopping us from using Ares rather than persisting with Warrior ?

Thank you for your time.

Well technically yes, Ares could be optimised to carry more troops and it should be possible to put some remote turret like RT60 for example and use as IFV. But for this it would require new orders as current Ares fleet is intended to use in 4 Ajax regiment for specialist teams like anti-tanks, combat engineers and dismounted recce teams. Basically every Ajax regiment would require some 20+ Ares vehicles which would cover for the majority of 93 ordered. It would also require number of other variants, like Athena, Apollo & Atlas which would also should be taken from those intended for other units. If those vehicles are just taken from their intended units without replacement it would have serious impact on those units capability.

Logically, if UK wants new IFV, Ajax based vehicle would be natural choice. But that would require new orders, and considering how sensitive and controversial whole Ajax program is, it would not be easy to do it unless Ajax really prove to be as good as the Army is expecting it to be. And that would require time, since Ajax is still not in service.

But also, if UK is to order additional Ajax for IFV replacement, would Ajax/Ares be the best choice? Would something that is already on market (AS21 Redback, Lynx, CV90MkIV) or something that is expected to arrive until the end of the decade (US OMFV or CV90MkV) would be better solution. After all, UK should have plan/strategy for it, and would probably require time to secure enough funds for such project.

I absolutely understand the current order timelines and the need to change those if required. The question was more about Ares's potential - if any - to fulfil a role not initially envisaged and how - to me at least - solves the legacy Warrior obsolesce issues.

On paper at least it seems to offer the protection, capacity and potentially firepower to fulfil a IFV role better than anything we currently have and would be able to procure in the future due to budgetary constraints.

[Ian Hall]

[Ian Hall]

[Dahedd]

https://gagadget.com/en/afv/300723-spai ... s-m113-ar/

Spain to go with Ascod 2. Seems like it's only Ajax thats a cock up

[Jackstar]

Ajax platforms have fired over 10,000 rounds, at Kirkcudbright and Lulworth, across the range of ammunition types, including from a moving AJAX vehicle.

[Ian Hall]

[Ian Hall]

[Jackstar]

[marktigger]

I know it's logistically Logical to extend Ajax program into AIFV, But has ASCOD had huge export success compared to it's rivals?

Doesn't that speak volumes?

[sol]

Ajax explosive trials

[Jackstar]