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Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
51
11%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
13
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
120
26%
An LCS-like modular ship
21
4%
A modernised Type 23
22
5%
A Type 26-lite
65
14%
Less than 5 hulls
21
4%
5 hulls
63
13%
More than 5 hulls
91
19%
 
Total votes: 467

Clive F
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Clive F » 12 Sep 2019, 16:34

Anyone know when they will name the class?

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Jdam » 12 Sep 2019, 18:01

New ships are always good news, we will need to wait and see if they can be delivered for the very difficult cost constraint. Pity Appledore couldn't have been part of it.

Seen the suggestions in the BBC about the potential for more than 5 and export orders. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. :(

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SKB
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby SKB » 12 Sep 2019, 18:06

"Value Class" Frigates.
(each to have sponsor logos on the bow, ala HMS Dragon)

HMS Lidl
HMS Aldi
HMS Asda
HMS Morrisons
HMS Iceland

:mrgreen:

RAF>FAN
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby RAF>FAN » 12 Sep 2019, 19:07

And HMS Poundland

If there's enough money to build an extra one!

SW1
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby SW1 » 12 Sep 2019, 19:20

Well done to Babcock I hope they now deliver.

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Pseudo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Pseudo » 12 Sep 2019, 21:15

If we're going alphabetically then I think that 'H' is up next, so how about HMS Highlander and we cancel the other four because "there can be only one". :D

rbw91
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby rbw91 » 13 Sep 2019, 08:11

Dont give the Treasury ideas......

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shark bait
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 13 Sep 2019, 09:21

Pseudo wrote:'H' is up next

What about F or G?
@LandSharkUK

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Pseudo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Pseudo » 13 Sep 2019, 10:48

shark bait wrote:
Pseudo wrote:'H' is up next

What about F or G?

I'm going with the logic of Glasgow beginning with a 'G' and 'F' being inexplicably skipped.

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SKB
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby SKB » 13 Sep 2019, 10:51

T26's = Cities.
T31's = More cities or maybe towns?

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shark bait
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 13 Sep 2019, 11:03

Towns and Cities are boring, lets bring back some of the awesome names from the past;
Fearless
Fire Drake
Fury
Fairy
@LandSharkUK

Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 13 Sep 2019, 11:13

I agree I always liked

Faithful
Fearless
Foresight
Fortitude
Fire Drake

Edit : And if a second batch was to come

Friendship
Fury
Forester

Aethulwulf
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Aethulwulf » 13 Sep 2019, 11:38

https://www.ft.com/content/3d11e7a2-d575-11e9-8367-807ebd53ab77

Doubts over Type 31 frigate work for struggling yards
H&W and Ferguson can bid on new contracts but without guarantees, warns Babcock

Babcock International has warned there is no guarantee that the two struggling shipyards in Northern Ireland and Scotland that were part of the winning team to build warships for the Royal Navy will secure any work.

The warning by the defence contractor, named preferred bidder for the £1.25bn Type 31 frigate contract on Thursday, will come as a blow to the 473 workers at Belfast’s Harland & Wolff and Scotland’s Ferguson Marine Engineering on the Clyde that both collapsed into administration in August.

Archie Bethel, chief executive of Babcock, which led the bid team, told the FT both yards would “get a chance to bid” but the company “would not risk the programme”.

“We never guaranteed they would get any work, they are not expecting that,” he said.

Both yards, Mr Bethel added, would have to “pass the same hurdles that any suppliers have to pass in terms of financial security and security of supply. Assuming that [any] new owners can do that, they will be included in the process”.

Workers at the two yards are hoping the contract will throw them a lifeline, especially the 123 employed at H&W, which has no work. Administrators to the yard remain in talks with two potential buyers but declined to comment on Thursday.

Denise Walker, senior organiser for the GMB, one of H&W’s two unions, said the contract to build five frigates offered the prospect of new work for the yard but conceded its future remained in doubt until a new owner was found.

H&W has not built a ship since 2003 but Ms Walker insisted it had the right skills to complete steel fabrication, adding that the workforce was still employed and “good to go”.

The 350 workers at Ferguson Marine, which was rescued by the Scottish government last month are still completing a ferry contract but were also expecting a boost from the award of the Type 31 build programme.

Derek Mackay, the Scottish government’s economy secretary, said Babcock had the “full support” of Holyrood, and would be pushing for work for Ferguson Marine.

“Once the final details of the contract are announced, we look forward to discussions on the role that Ferguson Marine could play alongside other suppliers in Scotland,” he said.

But Mr Bethel insisted Babcock had won the bid on the basis of the work being done “100 per cent at Rosyth”, adding that with the exception of France’s Thales, “none of our members were risk-sharing” and the competition for work was open all UK yards.

Mr Bethel said he would not rule out Cammell Laird securing a role on the programme — the shipyard in Birkenhead was part of the one of the two losing bids.

The five frigates will be assembled at Babcock’s Rosyth yard in Fife and the company will subcontract the fabrication of parts of the hulls. The aim is to mirror the approach taken for the navy’s two new aircraft carriers which were built in blocks at different yards and then assembled at Rosyth, where the second ship is nearing completion.

The contract will secure some 450 jobs at Rosyth as the work on the carrier programme tails off, according to unions. First steel is expected to be cut in the middle of 2021, with the aim of getting the first frigate into the water in 2023.

The Type 31 programme is a key element of a national naval shipbuilding strategy launched in 2017, itself a response to an independent review in 2016 by industrialist John Parker.

It recommended that future warships should be designed to increase the prospect of exports and to increase collaboration between shipbuilders by using the broader supply chain, reversing a previous policy that had left BAE Systems, one of the losing bidders on Type 31, as the main supplier of naval vessels.

Ministers have sought to cast the award as part of a wider push to reinvigorate shipbuilding in the UK — which has suffered a sharp decline in recent years — as well as the Royal Navy’s capabilities, which have come under scrutiny in recent weeks after the seizure of a UK-flagged tanker by Iran.

But Francis Tusa, editor of Defence Analysis, is a vocal critic of the strategy and said the UK simply did not have the money to sustain more than one naval shipyard capable of building complex warships.

Richard Scott, naval consultant at Jane’s Defence, said the shipbuilding strategy was “more about sustaining a level of capacity and capability than to drive an expansion”, noting that the Type 31 frigates were designed to replace some of the ageing Type 23s. After sustained cuts to the number of ships over recent decades, the navy has just 13 frigates and six destroyers.

Unions on Thursday stepped up pressure on the government to back the prime minister’s pledge to “bring shipbuilding home” by ensuring a contract to build three support ships for the navy did not go abroad.

The government was required to put it out to international tender, under EU law, because it did not designate them warships, which are exempted. It has stoked fears that government-backed foreign bidders will be able to undercut UK yards. One UK consortium, comprising BAE, Babcock, Cammell Laird and Rolls-Royce, is bidding to win the work.

Mike Clancy, general secretary at Prospect, said: “These [Type 31] frigates were always going to be built in the UK, but workers need a cast-iron guarantee from the prime minister that new naval support ships will also be built in our yards and UK workers will not be left high and dry while vital work and taxpayers’ money is sent abroad

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shark bait
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 13 Sep 2019, 11:46

If it was my project I certainly wouldn't want two of my main suppliers to be in administration.

Easy to understand why Babcock has removed them from their marketing material.
@LandSharkUK

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby dmereifield » 13 Sep 2019, 13:19

SKB wrote:T26's = Cities.
T31's = More cities or maybe towns?


Yes please, towns, counties or historical/geographical names which can help ensure that the wider public has more affiliation with the ships and their crews.

Sadly, most people don't care about the RN or RN ships, but when they hear of HMS "home city/town/county" being deployed somewhere or visiting their local port etc, they have an immediate sense of ownership and linkage

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xav
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby xav » 13 Sep 2019, 13:44

We'll publish a video (our DAY 3 coverrage @ dsei) next week.

Of course we focused on this. Interviews of Babcock CEO, en engineer in charge of warships and someone from Thales for the Tacticos CMS which will feature a new "AI" feature to automate (and expedite) Royal Navy doctrines for the folks citing in the ops room / CIC

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 13 Sep 2019, 14:00

"with the exception of France’s Thales, “none of our members were risk-sharing” and the competition for work was open all UK yards."

This is the key. If H&W and FM did not share the risk, they have no privilege at all for sure (*1). They will be competing with Cammell Laird to bidding for some parts of the hulls. Good thing. This is exactly what is competition.

- Taking risk to get the privilege. No risk, no privilege.
- And, if in free competition, just fight for cost.
- And just go bankrupt, if failed for a few times.

This is competition. :thumbup:

Also, as Thales took the risk, the CMS will be surely TACTICOS. They worth it.

*1: Anyway, with their very limited finance, H&W and FM will not be able to take risk. They were just too weak to stand up.

Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 13 Sep 2019, 14:39

I can see blocks being built at CL and if the Scottish government take on the risk then FM. As for CL and H&W the best thing that can happen is they come together to build 3 SSS over 6 years and then move on to the LPD replacement

serge750
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby serge750 » 13 Sep 2019, 20:20

How about great politicians....

No 1 Urm…….


Sure we will think of something ……….

jcs1959
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby jcs1959 » 13 Sep 2019, 23:53

Just to give you a heads up, check out Def Aero Report on youtube to watch an interview of Captain Steve Prest by Vago Muradian.
Captain Prest (who you may recognise from Britains biggest warship tv series) is now the Royal Navy type 31 frigate program director.

cky7
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby cky7 » 13 Sep 2019, 23:58

^^^^I put the link to vago’s other DSEI IV today in the tempest thread that’s well worth watching too....

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby RichardIC » 14 Sep 2019, 07:59


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RichardIC
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby RichardIC » 14 Sep 2019, 08:13



“Eight?; Eight!?; Five; maybe Eight.”

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 14 Sep 2019, 08:56

RichardIC wrote:“Eight?; Eight!?; Five; maybe Eight.”
Hopefully the same doesn't apply to the Type 26 programme.

HMG really need to make a firm commitment to 24 escorts ASAP.

Nine T26's and nine T31's backed up the six T45's looks eminently achieveable IF the A140's really can be built in the UK for £250m UPC.

Babcock seem very confident that they can do it. Time will tell.

Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 14 Sep 2019, 09:01

Two very good reports interesting that a figure of 8 ships keeps getting pushed


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