French Armed Forces

[Lord Jim]

We do seem to have a preference for dealing with Germany when it comes to European co-operation on ground based systems these days. If we get the JLTVs for the price originally mentioned they will be an absolute bargain, but little has been released regarding secondary costs. Regarding the Boxer, the Army seem to want to double down on this platform, now that things have moved forward at last, which is understandable, and the desire seems to be to purchase equipment more suited for top tier warfighting capability that for COIN or peace keeping operations, though the JLTV fits this category quite nicely. If all the programmes currently underway actually deliver what the Army wants I the numbers needed the British Army will be in rude health in the second half of the 2020s. But how much is actually funded and how much is awaiting "Efficiencies" is another matter. Recent debate in the UK Parliament have hade a strong case for the MoD to be fully funded going forward, removing the Treasury imposed requirement to make efficiencies in order to fund the 2018-2028 EP. This would have a huge impact on the EP going forward as would the wish to be allowed to have multi-year funding arrangements for large complex programmes instead of in year spending.

[abc123]

I meant more on those retired aircrafts, did they had any resources left when they were retired?

They still belong to the French Air Force, they are not retired, they are maintained in operational condition, they fly and do missions, what else do you want to know ?

Just to clarify, we are speaking about plain old Mirage 2000C? Not D, N or 2000-5F? Right?

I'm asking because I'm in a dispute with one guy who said that all M2000C were retired because they have spent all their flight resources, so that in 2015 AdA had no Mirage 2000C in operative use?
BTW, what version of M2000 did France offer to Colombia back in 2015? C or 2000-5?

Proof 2 : While in France it is the time of the summer holidays in the Sahel the fighting continues, and this Wednesday, July 17, 2019 Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000C and D fighter jets hit jihadist targets in the Gao region.

Do you happen to have any link about that?

[Frenchie]

Do you happen to have any link about that?

https://www.avionslegendaires.net/2019/ ... s-au-mali/

Immédiatement l’ordre est donné à l’Armée de l’Air et l’Aviation Légère de l’Armée de Terre de se porter au secours des forces maliennes. Mais le territoire du cercle d’Ansongo où se déroule les combat est assez éloigné des emprises françaises. Le raid aérien sera donc avant tout confié à trois avions de combat : deux Mirage 2000C et un Mirage 2000D. Ces avions emportent tous des bombes à guidage laser GBU-12 Paveway II. Cette arme très précise est particulièrement adaptée au théâtre d’opération sahélo-saharien avec sa charge de combat de 87 kilos. Un ravitailleur en vol Boeing C-135FR est également déployé à proximité avec pour mission de soutenir ces chasseurs-bombardiers au cas où ils devraient demeurer sur zone plus longtemps que prévu. Au-dessus de ces régions désertiques les jets français sont autorisés à voler en supersonique, l’urgence de la situation le permettant.

[xav]

French Navy Aiming for 1200 Unmanned Systems by 2030

There will be 1200 drones in the French Navy in 2030, Marine Nationale's Chief-of-Staff admiral Christophe Prazuck recently declared to the Commission of National Defence and Armed Forces of the French Assemblée Nationale.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... s-by-2030/

interesting that they were looking at the SeaGuardian...

[xav]

French Navy SSN ‘Suffren’ Now in the Water at Naval Group Shipyard

The French Armament General Directorate (DGA) announced that France's new generation nuclear-powered attack submarine 'Suffren' entered the water for the first time today, at the Naval Group shipyard in Cherbourg, Normandie.

The next steps for the next generation submarine of the submarine will be the fueling of its nuclear core at the INBS (installation nucléaire de base secrète) Cachin in Cherbourg: The loading of Suffren‘s nuclear core with fuel rods is set for September 2019. The first divergence of the nuclear reactor will take place in November after a set of dock-side tests and after a gradual increase in power of the nuclear boiler module of the submarine. The divergence marks the first operational startup of the reactor.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -shipyard/

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French Navy Commissions 3rd Loire-class BSAM Support & Assistance Vessel ‘Seine’

The French Navy (Marine Nationale) commissioned its third Metropolitan Offshore Support & Assistance Vessel (BSAM) on July 24, 2019. The BSAM 'Seine' is the third of four ships of a class designed and built by Kership.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... sel-seine/

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Naval Group Achieves Breakthrough with its FC2G AIP System

Naval Group announced that they achieved a breakthrough with their proprietary FC2G AIP system for submarine: The company demonstrated an 18 days submerged patrol representative of operational conditions.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ip-system/

[Lord Jim]

Are the RAN equipping their planned SS with an AIP system?

[xav]

Are the RAN equipping their planned SS with an AIP system?

Nope, an AIP would not really help given their specific (almost unique) mission profile / requirements...

[abc123]

Are the RAN equipping their planned SS with an AIP system?

Nope, an AIP would not really help given their specific (almost unique) mission profile / requirements...

How so?

[SKB]

Franky Zapata has successfully crossed the English Channel today on his jet-propelled 'Flyboard' invention.
He took off from Sangatte, France and flew out to land on a refuelling vessel halfway across the Channel, from where he took off again.
Zapata then successfully crossed over St. Margaret's Bay in Dover and landed a short distance inland on a platform.

[Lord Jim]

Nope, an AIP would not really help given their specific (almost unique) mission profile / requirements...

Xav could you clarify this please.

[xav]

Well, the Attack class mission profile and requirements are quite unique in that the submarines will have to almost systematically travel very long distances (3 to 4K nautical miles) at high speed before reaching their "patrol area".

An AIP excels for long patrol but at low speed (therefore not very far from base).
The RAN want high transit speed and high transit endurance, at the expense of less patrol endurance (on site).

Faced with blue water / oceanic PLAN fleet, the RAN requirement for the Attack-class is "sustained patrol at 10 to 15 knots".
On paper, a SSN would be perfect. But Australia can't / won't procure an SSN.

Therefore they have to opt for a large conventional submarine with a large amount of large batteries.

[Timmymagic]

Franky Zapata has successfully crossed the English Channel today on his jet-propelled 'Flyboard' invention.
He took off from Sangatte, France and flew out to land on a refuelling vessel halfway across the Channel, from where he took off again.
Zapata then successfully crossed over St. Margaret's Bay in Dover and landed a short distance inland on a platform.

I'm very dubious about the actual practical applications of these things, but it has to be said this seems a lot more practical than the Gravity jet arrangement. 11 odd miles at 60 mph is not a bad range and speed.

[cky7]

Therefore they have to opt for a large conventional submarine with a large amount of large batteries.

Do you mean lithium ion like the new Japanese SSKs are supposed to have?

[Lord Jim]

So ideally they really need a Submarine with a large battery pack for high transit speeds and AIP for high endurance slow operations once in theatre. This could end up producing the first conventional alternative to SSNs for many missions.

[xav]

Therefore they have to opt for a large conventional submarine with a large amount of large batteries.

Do you mean lithium ion like the new Japanese SSKs are supposed to have?

So ideally they really need a Submarine with a large battery pack for high transit speeds and AIP for high endurance slow operations once in theatre. This could end up producing the first conventional alternative to SSNs for many missions.

Naval Group could still offer this (Li Ion battery + new gen AIP) should the RAN request this... but so far they have not (according to my sources). Reasons inlcude:
- Extra cost
- Li Ion still seen as a risky solution (only the JMSDF is experimenting with this tech in a single (for now) submarine). For now, as of today, RAN prefers existing (low risk) and proven batteries.
- Technology transfer issues (that new Fuel Cell AIP tech is still being developed and if successful will be a "game changer". Not sure if NG will get the green light from the French Gov to transfer its technology to Australia).

[abc123]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but France didn't sell AIP-powered submarines to anyone yet? All the Scorpenes were diesel-electric variants for now?

[xav]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but France didn't sell AIP-powered submarines to anyone yet? All the Scorpenes were diesel-electric variants for now?

Correct regarding the Scorpenes.
They did sell MESMA AIP modules (older generation / tech) for the Agosta class SSKs sold to Pakistan however

[Lord Jim]

Designing a high endurance AIP/Li Ion submarine could open up a whole market sector that France would be the only entrant. A design that could compete on some levels with SSNs without the costs linked to such platforms could be very tempting to quite a few navies. Maybe this is an opportunity the Naval Group should explore more?

[abc123]

Designing a high endurance AIP/Li Ion submarine could open up a whole market sector that France would be the only entrant. A design that could compete on some levels with SSNs without the costs linked to such platforms could be very tempting to quite a few navies. Maybe this is an opportunity the Naval Group should explore more?

On the other hand, it seems that Germans have allready stolen the AIP market, at least until now.

[xav]

Video: French Navy’s SLAMF Unmanned Mine Warfare System to be Qualified in December

The unmanned surface vessel of the SLAMF/MMCM program carried out a demonstration of its capabilities in Brest harbor in June 2019. Testing with teams from the French Navy, French Armament General Directorate (DGA) and Thales is ongoing while qualification for the whole system (USV + payload) is set for December this year.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -december/

[ArmChairCivvy]

seems that Germans have allready stolen the AIP market, at least until now.

That's why they wanted Kockum (now Saab; ehhm, for that exact reason) to build coastal subs, only.
- Spain also has an offer (just that their own first-in-class has been badly delayed; who is going to buy without years of trouble-free operation, after such an initial debacle?)

[abc123]

s who is going to buy without years of trouble-free operation, after such an initial debacle?)

Yep. Same thing with chances of Navantia's surface ships after Helge Ingstad.

[donald_of_tokyo]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... fe-update/

French MN is to update 3 of the 5 La Fayette class "Light Stealth Frigates", La Fayette, Courbet and Aconit. (the news is, the 3 hulls to be updated are named/selected).

A few comments:

1: Interestingly it is hull 1, 3 and 4. Hull 2 and 5 (the newest) will not be upgraded. Reflecting the hull corrosion status? Or the remaining 2 hulls is for export market? (might be both)

2: Replaced is the Crotal-naval CLOS SAM, vintage one, with two sets of SADRAL-system, carrying 6 MANPADS SAM Mistral-2(3?) each. Very interesting. Either MN thinks, Mistral2 is useful against ASMs, or there is no big difference among the two SAMs and simply Crotale-SAM will go out of service but Mistral will stay for a while.

# I am very much interested in Mistrals ASM defense capability. Can it kill Exocet? Or can it kill Styx-level 1st generation ASM only?

3: CMS modernization and addition of hull sonar. Kingklip by Thales. Normal, not good, not bad.

[xav]

^ CROTALE can't intercept sea skimming missiles. MISTAL (when the launchers are NOT manned like on Mistral class LHD) can

This has been confirmed to me by both industry and navy


I interviewed ALFAN, the surface fleet commander about the shift to dual crews for FREMM Frigates:

[Lord Jim]

Was there ever any plan to install one or more Sylver systems on the La Fayette class, as has been done on the export ships? It appears they are now becoming more effective GP platforms with capabilities in most areas. A true jack of all trades.