River Class (OPV) (RN)

[Lord Jim]

Swap out VL-Mica for Sea Ceptor and MM40 Exocet for whatever the RN chooses to replace its block 1 Harpoons and with a range of 4500 Nm the RN could surely do worse for a platform to operate outside the Carrier Group. Their design spec. seems to exceed that of the T-31e RIF in most areas and we could have around eight for what is in the latter's budget. Why has this design be excluded from consideration for that project? Are the RN really that against operating anything called a "Corvette"?

[Repulse]

You mean this ..

https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/corvettes

That’s one variant yes, and the underlying design is flexible and can be evolved further for a number of roles - plus it’s exportable now.

I know people will say the Leander is another variant, which is true to a degree, I just don’t think the price tag justifies the difference with the River and Al Khareef variant classes, nor what I’d expect the Avenger to cost.

[Caribbean]

I know people will say the Leander is another variant, which is true to a degree

When one considers that "Leander" is offered in four lengths (99, 102,117 & 120m), one of which is exactly the same as the Khareef, I think it's clear that Leander is entirely a "pimped Khareef". The cost of the 120m variant comes in at £67k/ tonne, which is pretty close to the average price for a "proper" frigate (around £66k/tonne - not to be taken too literally), built to a standard "dense" design. At that price per tonne, the 102m variant would be somewhere around £187m and the 99m approx. £179m (both very rough estimates). The Khareefs themselves were £133m (roughly £168m now) each in 2009-2011. By comparison, the Babcock-built Vards were around £27k/tonne).

[Repulse]

Caribbean, I see your point and would happily see a £170mn design as a reasonable way forward based on a Khareef / Avenger Class - for the £1.5bn as the total T31 budget (build plus design), we would be very close to an option of 5 of the plus another T26.

[Ron5]

Type 31 budget is 1.25 billion as very recently reconfirmed by the MoD in a written Parliamentary answer to Adm West. Not 1.5. And the budget includes research, development, design & initial service as well as build of 5 ships.

Type 31 Leander will come in at about 50k per ton i.e approx half Type 26.

The Leander being offered to the RN is the 117m version.

IMO, Aetholwulf has made the best guess at to what differentiates the 120m from the 117m design and that is the addition of a Merlin sized hangar with everything else remaining the same. If that's true and anyone thinks that's what the RN should be ordering, I'm 100% in agreement.

There's no secret or controversy that Leander is a stretched Al Khareef corvette, Bae has described it so from day one. And that the Al Khareef has its design roots in the VT design team that were responsible for the Rivers. I think the Vosper house styling still shows to a degree.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Are the RN really that against operating anything called a "Corvette"?

In the days of the deepest controversy around the LCS designs, the then-DefSec said "What the h@ll should we do; buy some corvettes instead?"
- RN thinks the same - they just don't spell it out

Leander is entirely a "pimped Khareef". The cost of the 120m variant comes in at £67k/ tonne, which is pretty close to the average price for a "proper" frigate (around £66k/tonne

+

Type 31 Leander will come in at about 50k per ton i.e approx half Type 26.

The Leander being offered to the RN is the 117m version.

The Spanish sell teir BAMs by the meter, in various lengths: a cool e1 mln per meter... so a different metric

I think the Vosper house styling still shows to a degree.

Sure does.

[Tempest414]

I think talking about Khareef's is a long way north of what a River class is and should be. For me the end of the line River class should be 100 meters with Wildcat hangar with a Phalanx mount on top so the weapon can be fitted if needed and a 57 mm gun the extra 10 meters should be used to hold the helicopter team, fuel and weapons with all other things staying the same . This would allow BAE to have 3 classes of ships

1) OVP's 85 meter basic ship up to 100 meter Sloops
2) 99 meter Corvette up to 120 meter light Frigate
3) Type 26 global combat Frigate

[Ron5]

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

[Tempest414]

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

Oh dear

[Scimitar54]

Well (for a ship) it would be better than calling it a T-bird or a Mustang.

[Caribbean]

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

Maybe we should call it a "freedom frigate"

[donald_of_tokyo]

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

Interesting. For me, modern corvette was “reborn” when UK built Flower class corvettes, which is even BEFORE a modern Frigate was reborn. Isn’t is has a long and brilliant RN history?

[NickC]

BAE Systems 2018 Annual Report dd 28 March 2019

"Offshore Patriol Vessel programme quality issues have required the creation of a £47m loss provision"

[Ron5]

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

Interesting. For me, modern corvette was “reborn” when UK built Flower class corvettes, which is even BEFORE a modern Frigate was reborn. Isn’t is has a long and brilliant RN history?

My comment was tongue in cheek. I'm pretty sure "frigate" has a french origin also

[SKB]

[Ron5]

Great photos - thanks

[donald_of_tokyo]

Dutch Holland-class OPV performing Naval Gunfire Support in Joint Warrior exercise. A 76mm gun shot.
In low threat environment, even an OPV with a gun = Floreal-like can do some good jobs, I guess? All depend on the threat level.

# Of course not as a full-fat frigate, but just as a "Floreal-like" vessel = somewhere in between the large gap of a full-fat frigate (~1B GBP average) and an OPV (~100M GBP average, or even less).

[Pongoglo]

Pop gun .

[donald_of_tokyo]

[Repulse]

In Falmouth at the mo - HMS Severn coming along nicely.

[Repulse]

Another pic of HMS Severn from earlier in the week.

[Tempest414]

Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P

[SKB]

HMS Medway (P223)

[SKB]

HMS Spey (P226)

[donald_of_tokyo]

Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P

Extensive upkeep work has been done. Is her fate after 2020 been decided or there are still possibilities to be sold on 2020?