Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Just had a crazy thought, I wonder if given /mod think put meko design in and try get a kind of agreement that we pic meko design and Germany pics t26 design for mks180 after the disaster with f125 frigate and t26 doing well ,don't think it would be a bad trade off if new meko uptown the t31 mission
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Mean government and up to the mission ,sorry typing on mobile
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Plus thinking it thru arnt the Australian frigates a meko design with ceafar radar already incorporated Which the government has said it would look at this radar in future ?
- Tempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5632
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
For me the MOD has handed out 3 5 million pound design contracts to 3 teams yet we only know what one will look like and in 1 year a winner will be picked. We think Babcocks is pushing on with A140 but we don't know as they have removed type 31 from there site and we also think the Atles is going for A200 design.
I am starting to think that BAE have this in the bag and the other two are taking a 5 million pound pay out to play along with idea this is a competition
I am starting to think that BAE have this in the bag and the other two are taking a 5 million pound pay out to play along with idea this is a competition
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Babcock have stated categorically that the Arrowhead 140 is their offering, and they are one of the three who have been awarded the cash to grow that design. Why would they want to give away any design details to the other contenders, just to please the likes of us.Tempest414 wrote:For me the MOD has handed out 3 5 million pound design contracts to 3 teams yet we only know what one will look like and in 1 year a winner will be picked. We think Babcocks is pushing on with A140 but we don't know as they have removed type 31 from there site and we also think the Atles is going for A200 design.
I am starting to think that BAE have this in the bag and the other two are taking a 5 million pound pay out to play along with idea this is a competition
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
It is a tad bulky but I don't think that's the reason because of its shape - the top part angles outward which is the opposite of what you'd want your flat radar panels to do.Caribbean wrote:That mast is interesting - is it intended to mount flat-panel radar?
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
That the MoD have sent out extremely strict instructions that no one apart from themselves say anything about the program. They must be annoyed that their guaranteed happy news program has attracted so much criticism especially around the debacle of the stop & start.ArmChairCivvy wrote: Ron5 wrote:
Only one of the three bidders has even acknowledged their success in getting design contracts. Sigh
What do you read into that behaviour?
Standard response by the UK establishment. Rather than looking to learn or improve, they just cloud everything in secrecy behind which the same idiocy is repeated.
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
AFAIK they've reportedly said this in private but not in any public announcement.jonas wrote:Babcock have stated categorically that the Arrowhead 140 is their offering
- Tempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5632
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
I have seen nothing from Babcocks to say A140 is still on the table we just think it is . However as a British Tax payer I do feel I have a right to see something for my money at leased I can see what BAE have in mind. I am not asking for details at this point just what they have in mind and they should at this point have something.jonas wrote:Why would they want to give away any design details to the other contenders, just to please the likes of us.
In fact under latest projects on there site they have A120 and nothing about type 31
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Did you say nebulous? Fabula and nebula also seem to come in pairs...Ron5 wrote:Standard response [...] just cloud everything in secrecy
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
This is a tweet direct from Thales, hope it answers your doubts :-Tempest414 wrote:I have seen nothing from Babcocks to say A140 is still on the table we just think it is . However as a British Tax payer I do feel I have a right to see something for my money at leased I can see what BAE have in mind. I am not asking for details at this point just what they have in mind and they should at this point have something.jonas wrote:Why would they want to give away any design details to the other contenders, just to please the likes of us.
In fact under latest projects on there site they have A120 and nothing about type 31
Thales UK
@ThalesUK
.@DefenceHQ has today announced that Team 31 has been shortlisted in the UK's Type 31(e) next generation frigate competition. Team 31's Arrowhead 140 ship solution comprises Babcock, @ThalesUK, @BMT_Global, OMT, @Harland_Wolff1 and Ferguson Marine. http://thlsuk.com/dTA030mVHzV
7:46 am - 10 Dec 2018
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
That shot one of the many fabula down; however, this is not just foggy, but the MDP rocket will need to travel through many nebula... to land anywhere sensible.jonas wrote: Team 31's Arrowhead 140 ship solution comprises Babcock, @ThalesUK, @BMT_Global, OMT, @Harland_Wolff1 and Ferguson Marine.
- I would be the first one to admit that it is tough, but when the relevant 'big picture' information is being withheld, one can only make light of it (or the efforts)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Must admit I was pretty incredulous when I heard that Atlas Elektronik were the unknown contender, and initially pretty cynical too - the idea of the RN sailing the oceans in a German boat just doesn't seem right at all Since then however I've been reading up on the latest Meko's and specifically the South African 'Valour ' Class and it seems that they have come a long way since the Anzac's, in their time a very capable ship which with the latest upgrades in most scenarios could in all probability hold their own today. Most interestingly to my mind however is that the basic spec would seem to fit almost exactly that laid down in the T31 RFI, almost indeed as if that was the intent.....
Valour Class:
Displacement: 3700 tons
Length:
107.3 m (352 ft) at waterline
121 m (397 ft) overall
Beam: 16.34 m (53.6 ft)
Draught: 5.95 m (19.5 ft)
Propulsion:
CODAG WARP
2 MTU 16V 1163 TB93 diesel engines, 5,920 kilowatts (7,940 hp) each, 2 shafts for cruise;
1 General Electric LM2500, 20,000 kilowatts (27,000 hp)
1 waterjet
Speed: 28 knots (52 km/h; 32 mph)
Range: 8,000 nautical miles (15,000 km) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph)
Endurance: 28 days
Complement: 152[1] (incl aircrew)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valour-class_frigate
Valour Class:
Displacement: 3700 tons
Length:
107.3 m (352 ft) at waterline
121 m (397 ft) overall
Beam: 16.34 m (53.6 ft)
Draught: 5.95 m (19.5 ft)
Propulsion:
CODAG WARP
2 MTU 16V 1163 TB93 diesel engines, 5,920 kilowatts (7,940 hp) each, 2 shafts for cruise;
1 General Electric LM2500, 20,000 kilowatts (27,000 hp)
1 waterjet
Speed: 28 knots (52 km/h; 32 mph)
Range: 8,000 nautical miles (15,000 km) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph)
Endurance: 28 days
Complement: 152[1] (incl aircrew)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valour-class_frigate
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Around £172m at r14.05 (approx. 2007 average) to the £.
So around £227m each, according to the BoE inflation calculator
So around £227m each, according to the BoE inflation calculator
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
- look into the CMS fit, upgrade it in line with more modern requirements (though the RN has a 'bulk buy') so we are bang on the qrtr of a bn target, per pieceCaribbean wrote:around £227m each, according to the BoE inflation calculator
- but that is before the need to reduce the crew, thru automation... and that is expensive
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- shark bait
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6427
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
I like it, a gas turbine with no gearboxes or clutches, nice!
Now if they'd swap the direct drive diesel's for a hybrid electric drive it'd be perfect!
Now if they'd swap the direct drive diesel's for a hybrid electric drive it'd be perfect!
@LandSharkUK
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
How much £££? (or in per cent)shark bait wrote:if they'd swap the direct drive diesel's for a hybrid electric drive
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- shark bait
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6427
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Shouldn't matter, hybrid is supposed to be cheaper in service
@LandSharkUK
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Most amusing. I see the Egyptians are being offer two for a billion Euros.Caribbean wrote:Around £172m at r14.05 (approx. 2007 average) to the £.
So around £227m each, according to the BoE inflation calculator
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
And factoring GFE and the fact that ours won't be so well equipped (e.g. ASM won't be included etc)ArmChairCivvy wrote:- look into the CMS fit, upgrade it in line with more modern requirements (though the RN has a 'bulk buy') so we are bang on the qrtr of a bn target, per pieceCaribbean wrote:around £227m each, according to the BoE inflation calculator
- but that is before the need to reduce the crew, thru automation... and that is expensive
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4111
- Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
About the same as it would take to build and equip two Arrowhead 140's properly?Ron5 wrote:Most amusing. I see the Egyptians are being offer two for a billion Euros.
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
But, but... can't we pay in installments? This Brexit and all the rest being "taxing" issues for nowPoiuytrewq wrote:the same as it would take to build and equip two Arrowhead 140's properly?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4111
- Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Could we negotiate a rebate?ArmChairCivvy wrote:But, but... can't we pay in installments? This Brexit and all the rest being "taxing" issues for nowPoiuytrewq wrote:the same as it would take to build and equip two Arrowhead 140's properly?
Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
You are going to need a bloody big plug and charging cable to charge that size of Hybrid overnight!shark bait wrote:Shouldn't matter, hybrid is supposed to be cheaper in service