Border Force Cutters.
- shark bait
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
This is the original story about the trial; https://www.airmedandrescue.com/story/1544
Also watch keeper trialled a wartime mode on its radar at unmanned warrior, could also be useful observing British waters, feeding info into the border force for action.
Also watch keeper trialled a wartime mode on its radar at unmanned warrior, could also be useful observing British waters, feeding info into the border force for action.
@LandSharkUK
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
Thanks. So it is for SAR, not fishery nor anti-smuggler?shark bait wrote:This is the original story about the trial; https://www.airmedandrescue.com/story/1544
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
No shortage of efforts to put sensors onto them: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/defender.htmmarktigger wrote:islander/defender would be a good option for short patrols.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- shark bait
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
Mostly yes, but will also be for security, and if that works well it may be expanded.donald_of_tokyo wrote:Thanks. So it is for SAR, not fishery nor anti-smuggler?
@LandSharkUK
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
interesting piece on BA cutters checking fishing boats for illegal Labour/ Labour practices on tonights country file
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
following a group on facebook on "Retired" lifeboats its interesting to see how many are exported especially the Aruns....Now boats like that and their replacements given the arrival of the "Trent's" the border force should look at picking up some "Severn's"
Re: Border Force Cutters.
This seems to have slipped past relatively unnoticed. The first of the Border Force 20m Rhibs went into service last October (though none listed as added since then) - HMCPV Eagle. Found the following Facebook page with some photos at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/AndyTLeePho ... 7327886402
Quote from a talk to a crewmember
"very interesting history, ex rescue boats carried aboard larger off shore vessels, some eight been bought, inside stripped out for now, but accommodation to be fitted"
Quote from a talk to a crewmember
"very interesting history, ex rescue boats carried aboard larger off shore vessels, some eight been bought, inside stripped out for now, but accommodation to be fitted"
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
- shark bait
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
Looks like a good addition.
Small local craft, perfect to counter the ad-hoc nature of smuggling. Could seal the deal with a low cost fixed wing aircraft, perhaps similar to what the police are beginning to operate. Would have a fairly tight system to locate and inspect suspicious activity then.
Small local craft, perfect to counter the ad-hoc nature of smuggling. Could seal the deal with a low cost fixed wing aircraft, perhaps similar to what the police are beginning to operate. Would have a fairly tight system to locate and inspect suspicious activity then.
@LandSharkUK
Re: Border Force Cutters.
Just noticed this on the Border Force website
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... n-scotland
Wiki now lists four active South Boats / Delta 19m Coastal Patrol Vessels
HMC Eagle (2016)
HMC Nimrod (2016)
HMC Alert (2016)
HMC Active (2016)
South Boats link http://www.southboatsiow.com/vessels/ for those that are interested
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... n-scotland
Wiki now lists four active South Boats / Delta 19m Coastal Patrol Vessels
HMC Eagle (2016)
HMC Nimrod (2016)
HMC Alert (2016)
HMC Active (2016)
South Boats link http://www.southboatsiow.com/vessels/ for those that are interested
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Re: Border Force Cutters.
The Trent-class is a bit older than the Severn-class, and is effectively a smaller version of the latter. Neither will be leaving the RNLI any time soon, the RNLI are currently working on replacing the remaining Tyne and Mersey-class boats with the Shannon class. After that production line is finished (good few years to go on that too) they may begin work on a Severn successor. I do agree though that RNLI designs would make good boats for the border force, in fact a prototype Tamar boat was sold on and operated by Kent Police for a number of years.marktigger wrote:following a group on facebook on "Retired" lifeboats its interesting to see how many are exported especially the Aruns....Now boats like that and their replacements given the arrival of the "Trent's" the border force should look at picking up some "Severn's"
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
It was idiotic that we did not buy all the three (but just the Protector):
"Is the Border Force Protector a new vessel or has it got a history?
Actually this cutter which is new to the UK Border Force, had a previous 12 years of life with the Finnish Border Guard During a cost cutting exercise and changes to the Border Guards operations, the FBG decided to sell three ships (called Telkkä, Tavi and Tiira respectively)."
The Finns were idiots (too) when they placed the original order: the cutters had no ability whatsoever to operate in icy conditions (hmmm: a good part of the year ).
"Is the Border Force Protector a new vessel or has it got a history?
Actually this cutter which is new to the UK Border Force, had a previous 12 years of life with the Finnish Border Guard During a cost cutting exercise and changes to the Border Guards operations, the FBG decided to sell three ships (called Telkkä, Tavi and Tiira respectively)."
The Finns were idiots (too) when they placed the original order: the cutters had no ability whatsoever to operate in icy conditions (hmmm: a good part of the year ).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- shark bait
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
I was amazed to learn the RNLI design and manufacture their own boats, and amazing origination!
@LandSharkUK
Re: Border Force Cutters.
The RNzN might be selling off one or more of their 340 Ton Protector Class Inshore Patrol Vessels. Just the job for the UK Border Force.
Re: Border Force Cutters.
james k wrote:The RNzN might be selling off one or more of their 340 Ton Protector Class Inshore Patrol Vessels. Just the job for the UK Border Force.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... rce-admitsDefence Minister Gerry Brownlee said the boats weren't "cutting it" in the rough waters surrounding the country.
Sound ideal.
Re: Border Force Cutters.
Swap a couple for a River B1?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Re: Border Force Cutters.
I'm surprised you're not accusing me of lying about that as well. The boats were not "cutting it" in the seas off NZ which are somewhat rougher than those around the UK, so yes they might well be ideal for us when they've not matched someone else's requirements. Do you follow other people around trolling their comments regularly?
RichardIC wrote:james k wrote:The RNzN might be selling off one or more of their 340 Ton Protector Class Inshore Patrol Vessels. Just the job for the UK Border Force.http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... rce-admitsDefence Minister Gerry Brownlee said the boats weren't "cutting it" in the rough waters surrounding the country.
Sound ideal.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
It is based on Danish Osprey-50 design. Tennix in austral bought that design (actually, slightly improved Osprey-55 design) and sold 2 to Philippine, and 4 modified version to RNZN. Do anybody know how was the Osprey-55 around the Britain island? (There is "sister" ships in Greek as well).
Re: Border Force Cutters.
The UK brought a NZ Protector Class? Which one. I thought Ice was a problem for the Protector OPV not the smaller IPV
ArmChairCivvy wrote:The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
I was just trying to see how many legs I could pull... as this onejames k wrote:The UK brought a NZ Protector Class? Which one. I thought Ice was a problem for the Protector OPV not the smaller IPV
ArmChairCivvy wrote:The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... -coastline
was bought from Finland.
- they talk about launching after some minor modifications... like removing all armament, incl. depth charges
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Border Force Cutters.
Ah different type of Protector. That one is Finnish but the ones I was talking about were New Zealand who have a smaller inshore class and a larger offshore class (which also have issues with top weight and ice).
Regards.
Regards.
ArmChairCivvy wrote:I was just trying to see how many legs I could pull... as this onejames k wrote:The UK brought a NZ Protector Class? Which one. I thought Ice was a problem for the Protector OPV not the smaller IPV
ArmChairCivvy wrote:The Protector we already bought did not cut it either... in its home waters. And there the problem was ice
- it has, indeed, been ideal. And just that tad larger than the other cutters, so "playing away" in the Med was no problem
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... -coastline
was bought from Finland.
- they talk about launching after some minor modifications... like removing all armament, incl. depth charges
MCA Coastguard Vessels
Does anyone know what vessels the MCA still operate and how they differ from Border Force?
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/det ... MCA_HUNTER
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/det ... MCA_HUNTER
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
Border Force cutters been busy lately https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-46296249marktigger wrote:shark bait wrote:The rivers aren't good, they're too big and slow to counter the small ad-hoc nature of smugglers. Aircraft and smaller faster craft are a more suitable response.marktigger wrote:For covering areas round the SW (Dorset, Devon and Cornwall) the Rivers are good
- looks (from the text) that these are enterprising middle class, using their 'devices' to flee an oppressive dictatorship in Iran
- like the MP for Ashford says, effort should be put in tracing back to the point of entry the criminal gangs making hay and dismantling them. Any paying customer will do, once they have perfected the network... and that includes terrorists of all shades and colours
As marktigger further said about Rivers "but they have the sea keeping capability to stay on station in more exposed waters and they do carry RIBS for intercepts." so they do have their place in the mix as the Channel can get fairly choppy
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.
Today's Telegraph says that that 'was in a literal meaning' ie. no other navigation than mobile phones, when they set out.ArmChairCivvy wrote:using their 'devices'
But more to the (thread's headline) point, the Home Secretary says that the allocation of the five cutters is less than optimal:
- as one needs to be kept in stand-by
- the other four are 50/50 between the Med and the Channel
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)