UK Defence Forum

News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Timmymagic
Member
Posts: 952
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 18 Sep 2018, 18:13

dmereifield wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/qata ... nto-action

Sale of 24 Typhoons (and 9 Hawks) to Qatar confirmed....


This is great news as there was some concern about when the first payment would be received, particularly as this single deal represented such a large percentage of the UK's export credit guarantees from central government.

bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 1461
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby bobp » 18 Sep 2018, 21:21

Good news, also extra 3 Hawks that will help keep that line open a bit longer.

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 5292
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby shark bait » 19 Sep 2018, 07:58

Why do Qatar need their jets on finance?
@LandSharkUK

Online
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 8001
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 19 Sep 2018, 08:25

shark bait wrote:Why do Qatar need their jets on finance?


It is a good insurance against (the low likelihood of) sequestership occurring; simply stop "installments" and grab the assets (with a mountain of spares ;) )

Timmymagic
Member
Posts: 952
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 19 Sep 2018, 12:30

shark bait wrote:Why do Qatar need their jets on finance?


It's called Export Credit Guarantees. Essentially the UK government will provide financial guarantees to companies who export large amounts so that if there are delays in payment, or cancellations they are protected from harm to a degree. They're pretty well assessed for risk beforehand and are hardly ever called upon, but they provide a lot of comfort for the stock market or finance houses. A lot are for larger contracts, particularly arms contracts where there may be significant costs up front before first payment is received. Yu can imagine that a lot of work has gone into the Qatari order already, before the first payment. Most big countries do it, they just call it different things...A lot of this has come about due to the Iranian Revolution in 1979, most western nations were affected by the cancellation or halting of colossal arms deals as a result.

Online
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 8001
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 19 Sep 2018, 15:04

Timmymagic wrote:Export Credit Guarantees. Essentially the UK government will provide financial guarantees to companies who export large amounts so that if there are delays in payment, or cancellations they are protected from harm to a degree. They're pretty well assessed for risk beforehand


The last 20 years have left military kit exports as the last "free for all" as in Gvmnts being able to subsidise exports from their countries as they wish:
"Since 1999, country risk categories have been harmonized by the Arrangement and minimum premium rates have been allocated to the various risk categories. This is intended to ensure that competition takes place via pricing and the quality of the goods exported, and not in terms of how much support a state provides for its exporters.[http://www.oecd.org/tad/xcred/arrangement.htm] The Arrangement does not extend to exports of agricultural commodities or military equipment. A recent decision at the World Trade Organization (WTO) indicates that the use of officially supported export credits in agriculture is bound by WTO members' commitments with respect to subsidised agricultural exports"

In this case:
"Qatar’s purchase was supported by a 5 billion pound package of financing and insurance support provided by UK Export Finance, the UK government said in a statement. "
-from Reuters

I have no urge to check whether this is so (or just how the newspaper interpreted the chain of events):
BAE signs £5bn Qatar fighter sale after Liam Fox tells UKEF to back deal
https://www.telegraph.co.uk › Business

21 hours ago

Timmymagic
Member
Posts: 952
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 07 Nov 2018, 13:42

Good news for Typhoon if it actually goes ahead. Although this protects the German production line, it will mean an awful lot of work for UK suppliers including BAE.


RetroSicotte
Site Admin
Posts: 2041
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:10
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby RetroSicotte » 07 Nov 2018, 14:13

Can't see the tweet (silly work blocks) but if it's them going for it for the Luftwaffe then yes, it'd be great. Especially given the Saudi order looks like it's more unlikely now with pressure regarding political affiliations with them. (Regardless of whether you believe we should or shouldn't, there is defo some chance that it may not happen now depending on international reaction or pressure.)

User avatar
Gabriele
Senior Member
Posts: 1880
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:53
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Gabriele » 07 Nov 2018, 14:19

Good news on one side; confirmation of just what a rip-off Tranche 1 is on the other.

And one goddamn third of the RAF fleet is made up of those unupgradeable expensive things.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Online
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 8001
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Nov 2018, 16:28

Gabriele wrote:a rip-off Tranche 1 is on the other


33 coming onto market from Germany; some from Austria. Spain? Italy?

F-16s are going to have some competition (in those countries that put air defence before anything else; that is quite a few?).

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 1791
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 07 Nov 2018, 16:35

I wonder if Greece could be tempted, they were interested in the Typhoon before thing went down the pan and they need a good AD platform to really replace their Mirage 2000 at least.

Online
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 8001
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Nov 2018, 16:47

Lord Jim wrote:platform to really replace their Mirage 2000 at least.


Is it 25 yrs from the deal yet? It was a famous barter... e.g. tobacco shipments over that period were included. Of course, they forged the GNP accounts, joined and were flush with euros, for a while. But not anymore
- more tobacco, anyone?

User avatar
Gabriele
Senior Member
Posts: 1880
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:53
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Gabriele » 07 Nov 2018, 17:19

33 coming onto market from Germany; some from Austria. Spain? Italy?


They have been pitched to everybody and their dog in these years. There's even been a report of Italy offering its own to Pakistan, of all places.
Nobody has ever seriously considered taking them up, and i wonder if a single one will ever be successfully sold.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Timmymagic
Member
Posts: 952
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 07 Nov 2018, 18:57

Gabriele wrote:Nobody has ever seriously considered taking them up, and i wonder if a single one will ever be successfully sold.


The problem is they cost a tonne of cash to fly and support. The T1's are still fantastically capable fighters, but if you've got the money for high end fighters you want multi role or you're making them yourself. The only sensible solution is what the RAF is doing....try and fly the wings off them whilst you've got them, burn those airframe hours up whilst minimising the use of the T2's and T3's. It's weird when everyone looks at F-35 concurrency as a problem, in comparison Typhoon is far worse.

Little J
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: 02 May 2015, 14:35
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Little J » 07 Nov 2018, 19:15

Lord Jim wrote:I wonder if Greece could be tempted, they were interested in the Typhoon before thing went down the pan and they need a good AD platform to really replace their Mirage 2000 at least.


Do the German's still own Greece? :shh: :shifty:

Online
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 8001
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Nov 2018, 19:28

Timmymagic wrote:try and fly the wings off them whilst you've got them, burn those airframe hours [...] weird when everyone looks at F-35 concurrency as a problem, in comparison Typhoon is far worse.
Ohh-no! We.ve bought another T1 to get rid of :D ?

Little J wrote:Do the German's still own Greece? :shh:

No, but they took Akropolis and all the islands as collateral :silent:

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 1791
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 08 Nov 2018, 22:36

We have very few T-Birds left, the OCU mostly flies single seaters now along with sim training.


Return to “Royal Air Force”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests