Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
My reading of the 5th Nov MOD Defence Equipment Plan 2018 Fig. 22 quotes current T26 cost to completion as £4,242M for the three ships, with first current in service date Oct 2027. If exclude the 'Assessment and Demonstration Phase' BAE contracts of ~ £1.5B would give build cost of ~ £900 million each. Just don't understand how Japanese can build their new 6,000t 30FFM for ~ £400M and the T26 costing £900M, to me just too costly and would terminate programme at the three ships.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... NAL-v1.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... NAL-v1.pdf
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
You may be right, it could be that for an apples to apples comparison the design costs are included in the Japanese 6,000t 30FFM cost at ~£400M and if so cost the T26 on same basis looking at £1,400M per ship, RN paying ~ £1B premium for first 3 ships, as said whichever way you look at the costs the T26 is just too costly and need to terminate programme at the 3 ships, a very sad indictment of the incompetence of MOD/RN which let the T26 grow like topsy.Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.
Think Defence quote
"The weight and size of Type 26 has changed, and possibly will continue to change until the detailed design is frozen and steel cut. This original baseline was reportedly 141m long, displacing 6,850 tonnes and costing an estimated £500m each. As part of the ongoing cost/capability trade-offs, it was repeatedly reported that this cost was undesirable to the MoD and capabilities (and size) pared down to achieve a target cost of £250 million to £350 million each."
BAE in their T26 PR quoted 5,400t for a long time, now Australia Hunter quoted at 8,800t
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Contrary to 'folklore' about T31 being a rushed idea, the decision to to split the class in two (8+5) was taken in 2010, but seeing T-26 through the main gate took longer than anyone had expected
- letting the follow-on act 'bolt' before time was not permissible
Had it become known that a T23 successor will cost three-four times more, then defending that 8+5 split might have been an onerous task
- sliding the ruler later, little by little, suits everyone involved better?
I will double post to "General" as these news haven't broken yet
- letting the follow-on act 'bolt' before time was not permissible
Had it become known that a T23 successor will cost three-four times more, then defending that 8+5 split might have been an onerous task
- sliding the ruler later, little by little, suits everyone involved better?
I will double post to "General" as these news haven't broken yet
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Do you have anything to corroborate that? The figures at the moment point to a billion pound frigate.Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.
@LandSharkUK
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
I have been estimating a T26 unit price (excluding R&D) for the first 8 hulls at ~£860m so your figure looks about right to me.NickC wrote:would give build cost of ~ £900 million each.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Lord West, former First Sea Lord, speaking in June said more urgency is needed in securing the work for the next five City-class warships, If there isn’t a ‘steady drum beat’ of orders for UK shipyards, the Labour peer warned overall costs could soar, with delays blighting the project.
Do not disagree but a faster build rate might save ~£10M? in shipyard overhead costs per ship, that's just noise in the build total cost of a T26 at ~ £900M each.
Do not disagree but a faster build rate might save ~£10M? in shipyard overhead costs per ship, that's just noise in the build total cost of a T26 at ~ £900M each.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
In regards to 'the defence equipment plan 2018, under 'Navy Command' I found this intriguing.
Quote
The Type 26 Frigate programme remains on
track to deliver within contract, although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Unquote
Quote
The Type 26 Frigate programme remains on
track to deliver within contract, although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Unquote
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Just look at how much 'float' they have and 'some' out of it is nothingjonas wrote: although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Hint: the report is about the allocation of the 10 year funding plan. Not a program by program costing. Anyone that claims they can extract UPC is ether a fool or a troll.shark bait wrote:Do you have anything to corroborate that? The figures at the moment point to a billion pound frigate.Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
You mean "guessing".Poiuytrewq wrote:I have been estimating a T26 unit price (excluding R&D) for the first 8 hulls at ~£860m so your figure looks about right to me.NickC wrote:would give build cost of ~ £900 million each.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Teresa May calls Justin Trudeau on Type 26 selection (and other things) for Canadian Royal Navy:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
A pure coincidence that T-26 is mentioned as the first item. The real beef is in keeping the G7 relevant (ref: G20 coming up soon)matt00773 wrote:Teresa May calls Justin Trudeau on Type 26 selection (and other things) for Canadian Royal Navy:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018
- Great Power competition is back; the rest of the G7 is worried about "the elephants fighting" as the grass will suffer
- in this context Trump's musings about inviting Russia back become understandable (though the timing might not be right... would be like receiving a medal and being invited for tea - for bad behaviour!)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Yes, I guess it's called hedging your bets.ArmChairCivvy wrote:Just look at how much 'float' they have and 'some' out of it is nothingjonas wrote: although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
- hovematlot
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Series of tweets today from Bae revealing their new Combat Management System. I'm assuming this will be fitted to the T26?
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Hopefully beaten in service by those on the Type 31's.
Quick question: after reading the tweets, whats the difference between INTeGen and INTeACT ?
Quick question: after reading the tweets, whats the difference between INTeGen and INTeACT ?
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Caption contest # 325:
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
"Can I have a P please, Bob?"Ron5 wrote:Caption contest # 325:
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
PM Teresa May to announce the name of a T26 as HMS London in a speech today:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ei-skripal
HMS Glasgow
HMS Cardiff
HMS Belfast
HMS Birmingham
HMS London
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ei-skripal
HMS Glasgow
HMS Cardiff
HMS Belfast
HMS Birmingham
HMS London
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Any takers for Edinburgh, Swansea & Londonderry for the last three?
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Londonderry would be a political no no. Newcastle, Leeds/Sheffield, Manchester/Liverpool would be my approximation.Scimitar54 wrote:Any takers for Edinburgh, Swansea & Londonderry for the last three?
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Online
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Sheffield perhaps. But probably not a Leeds. Leeds did have one of the ex-US 4 stackers named after it (called Town Class in UK service). But traditionally it has adopted a larger vessel (the last Ark Royal was tied to Leeds in place of a ship named Leeds).matt00773 wrote:Leeds/Sheffield
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
The full stop (to the sorry saga) has to be put somewhere... and leave no doubtCameronPerson wrote: Why aren’t they naming the ships in order?
but will "British" do as a nationality?SKB wrote:The UK is neither a nation
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)