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F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
The Pentagon has approved F-35 Block 4 programme nearly a year later than JPO anticipated, but has refused to reveal the cost and schedule. Earlier estimate for R&D was $10.8B, UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content, and for US $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 out to FY2024, costs for UK ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor not mentioned. Its troubling as you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.
The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.
The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
Forgot to mention that think its one reason that why UK needed to request authority to buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.NickC wrote:The Pentagon has approved F-35 Block 4 programme nearly a year later than JPO anticipated, but has refused to reveal the cost and schedule. Earlier estimate for R&D was $10.8B, UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content, and for US $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 out to FY2024, costs for UK ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor not mentioned. Its troubling as you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.
The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
That's true for F-35B, I think it's a realistic hedge on block 4 being done in time. In a way Block 4 dictates the real Full Operating Capability for the UK and CEPP. Without Block 4 we're limited to legacy Amraam (C5), legacy Asraam and Paveway IV. That's a Tranche 1 Typhoon's capability from 2010 in 2024.....not a full capability in anyone's book. Until SPEAR, Asraam CSP, Meteor and the new Paveway 4 capabilities (moving target and penetrator) are onboard we're way short of a full set. In fact even with those I think we're short of a few capabilities (JSM type for antiship/long range precision strike, anti-radiation missile and a decent glide kit for PWIV).NickC wrote:Forgot to mention that think its one reason that why UK needed to request authority to buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.
I think it was also to arm T1 Typhoon as well to their OSD in 2030 as the current Amraam C-5's were in need of an life extension. I can't find out if the Amraam D purchase has supplanted the proposed life extension on our existing C5 stocks, hopefully not. Meteor production will probably take a while to ramp up as well, and we have to wonder how many of those we'll actually buy...in many ways I'd have been happier with a re-life of the C-5's to get us to 2030 and an increased Meteor buy. But I suspect the powers that be have done the number crunching.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
One could...NickC wrote:you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.
So we get a couple of the 'real' thing towards the tail end of our early purchasesNickC wrote: TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.
which will only start to be kitted out to spec a year laterNickC wrote:buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.
Not at allTimmymagic wrote:That's a Tranche 1 Typhoon's capability from 2010 in 2024.....not a full capability in anyone's book
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
Just double checking something here.... how much of the F35 is built in the UK?
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
Don't know if this is what you're looking for....
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
SDL wrote:Just double checking something here.... how much of the F35 is built in the UK?
^ from an RAF tweet, dated 23 Aug 2018
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
It’s not even that much some of that is at RR and BAEs sites in the states. Other bits of BAE classed strutures is already duel sourced with other parties to the East. What is actually manufactured in the uk is not representative with those graphics anymore.
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10373 ... acron-news
>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.
these clowns...
>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.
these clowns...
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
It's the Express, and it's a sourceless random line. Likely just they haven't kept up enough and are saying what they think they know.sunstersun wrote:>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.
these clowns...
It's still a possibility, but I wouldn't treat that report as a reveal.
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
The aft fuse parts are pretty hefty pieces of kit - made and assembled in Samlesbury and shipped off to Fort Worth or Italy.SDL wrote:Thanks. thought we were building more TBH...
http://www.builditsoftware.com/2012/08/ ... rousel-117
The UK needs to knock out 6000 of these types of object, not bad considering how many we'll end up getting ....
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
The line in Japan was also bid for, but for undisclosed reasons (and surely cost was not among them) the bid was turned down.Defiance wrote:made and assembled in Samlesbury and shipped off to Fort Worth or Italy
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
I am sure this is one of the item under review as part of the MDP. Has anyone a rough idea of how much the MoD could save/gain by purchasing the A variant instead of the B for the 90 or so outstanding airframes assuming will still buy our stated number?RetroSicotte wrote:It's the Express, and it's a sourceless random line. Likely just they haven't kept up enough and are saying what they think they know.sunstersun wrote:>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.
these clowns...
It's still a possibility, but I wouldn't treat that report as a reveal.
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
Lot 11 prices are $89.2m for the A and $115.5m for the B (the C is $107.7if you're interested). With prices expected to drop again in the next Lot...
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
So that is a minimum of £2Bn difference at those prices. Not exactly chicken feed though I know things are never this simple.
Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
If the Politian's are persuaded to do a split buy (to get up to the original 138), then I think an equal split of A's and B's would be the best option (with RN taking the B's )
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)
We will get there (some time in the 40s; and by then Dave will come with version D, too. Might not translate to a B'D' but we will see. After all, we are buying capability, not versions).Little J wrote: do a split buy (to get up to the original 138)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
(BAE Systems) 31 Oct 2018
As the F-35 first of class flight trials get underway, we speak with the people who have been central to making this piece of aviation and naval history on-board HMS Queen Elizabeth.
Thread name changed.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Probably cost that much to add boom refueling to the tankers.Lord Jim wrote:So that is a minimum of £2Bn difference at those prices. Not exactly chicken feed though I know things are never this simple.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
But at least then we could also refuel our P-7s, P-8s, EC-135s and C-17s, and also friendly USAF planes using contactless payment on the go
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Something that should have been done to the core fleet of voyager from the beginning, but renegotiating the Tanker PFI should be undertaken with great trepidation. Mind you everyone likes to make more money and Airbus would be keen to do the work, I mean the RAF operating a boom and drogue MRTT is good for their business. And the RAF gains additional flexibility and capability. If I was confident in the MoD commercial abilities I would push for it but then again.