F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.
User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SKB »

Cat Flap.JPG
:mrgreen:

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3952
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Rule Britannia :D
image.jpg

NickC
Donator
Posts: 1431
Joined: 01 Sep 2017, 14:20
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by NickC »

The Pentagon has approved F-35 Block 4 programme nearly a year later than JPO anticipated, but has refused to reveal the cost and schedule. Earlier estimate for R&D was $10.8B, UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content, and for US $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 out to FY2024, costs for UK ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor not mentioned. Its troubling as you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.

The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.

NickC
Donator
Posts: 1431
Joined: 01 Sep 2017, 14:20
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by NickC »

NickC wrote:The Pentagon has approved F-35 Block 4 programme nearly a year later than JPO anticipated, but has refused to reveal the cost and schedule. Earlier estimate for R&D was $10.8B, UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content, and for US $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 out to FY2024, costs for UK ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor not mentioned. Its troubling as you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.

The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.
Forgot to mention that think its one reason that why UK needed to request authority to buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

NickC wrote:Forgot to mention that think its one reason that why UK needed to request authority to buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.
That's true for F-35B, I think it's a realistic hedge on block 4 being done in time. In a way Block 4 dictates the real Full Operating Capability for the UK and CEPP. Without Block 4 we're limited to legacy Amraam (C5), legacy Asraam and Paveway IV. That's a Tranche 1 Typhoon's capability from 2010 in 2024.....not a full capability in anyone's book. Until SPEAR, Asraam CSP, Meteor and the new Paveway 4 capabilities (moving target and penetrator) are onboard we're way short of a full set. In fact even with those I think we're short of a few capabilities (JSM type for antiship/long range precision strike, anti-radiation missile and a decent glide kit for PWIV).

I think it was also to arm T1 Typhoon as well to their OSD in 2030 as the current Amraam C-5's were in need of an life extension. I can't find out if the Amraam D purchase has supplanted the proposed life extension on our existing C5 stocks, hopefully not. Meteor production will probably take a while to ramp up as well, and we have to wonder how many of those we'll actually buy...in many ways I'd have been happier with a re-life of the C-5's to get us to 2030 and an increased Meteor buy. But I suspect the powers that be have done the number crunching.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

NickC wrote:you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.
One could...
NickC wrote: TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.
So we get a couple of the 'real' thing towards the tail end of our early purchases
NickC wrote:buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.
which will only start to be kitted out to spec a year later
Timmymagic wrote:That's a Tranche 1 Typhoon's capability from 2010 in 2024.....not a full capability in anyone's book
Not at all
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SDL
Member
Posts: 763
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:52
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SDL »

Just double checking something here.... how much of the F35 is built in the UK?

Little J
Member
Posts: 973
Joined: 02 May 2015, 14:35
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Little J »

Don't know if this is what you're looking for....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SKB »

SDL wrote:Just double checking something here.... how much of the F35 is built in the UK?
Image
^ from an RAF tweet, dated 23 Aug 2018

SDL
Member
Posts: 763
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:52
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SDL »

Thanks. thought we were building more TBH...

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5656
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SW1 »

It’s not even that much some of that is at RR and BAEs sites in the states. Other bits of BAE classed strutures is already duel sourced with other parties to the East. What is actually manufactured in the uk is not representative with those graphics anymore.

sunstersun
Member
Posts: 363
Joined: 09 Aug 2017, 04:00
United States of America

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by sunstersun »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10373 ... acron-news


>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.

these clowns...

RetroSicotte
Retired Site Admin
Posts: 2657
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:10
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by RetroSicotte »

sunstersun wrote:>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.

these clowns...
It's the Express, and it's a sourceless random line. Likely just they haven't kept up enough and are saying what they think they know.

It's still a possibility, but I wouldn't treat that report as a reveal.

Defiance
Donator
Posts: 870
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Defiance »

SDL wrote:Thanks. thought we were building more TBH...
The aft fuse parts are pretty hefty pieces of kit - made and assembled in Samlesbury and shipped off to Fort Worth or Italy.

http://www.builditsoftware.com/2012/08/ ... rousel-117

The UK needs to knock out 6000 of these types of object, not bad considering how many we'll end up getting ....

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Defiance wrote:made and assembled in Samlesbury and shipped off to Fort Worth or Italy
The line in Japan was also bid for, but for undisclosed reasons (and surely cost was not among them) the bid was turned down.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

RetroSicotte wrote:
sunstersun wrote:>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.

these clowns...
It's the Express, and it's a sourceless random line. Likely just they haven't kept up enough and are saying what they think they know.

It's still a possibility, but I wouldn't treat that report as a reveal.
I am sure this is one of the item under review as part of the MDP. Has anyone a rough idea of how much the MoD could save/gain by purchasing the A variant instead of the B for the 90 or so outstanding airframes assuming will still buy our stated number?

Little J
Member
Posts: 973
Joined: 02 May 2015, 14:35
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Little J »

Lot 11 prices are $89.2m for the A and $115.5m for the B (the C is $107.7if you're interested). With prices expected to drop again in the next Lot...

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

So that is a minimum of £2Bn difference at those prices. Not exactly chicken feed though I know things are never this simple.

Little J
Member
Posts: 973
Joined: 02 May 2015, 14:35
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Little J »

If the Politian's are persuaded to do a split buy (to get up to the original 138), then I think an equal split of A's and B's would be the best option (with RN taking the B's :angel: )

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Little J wrote: do a split buy (to get up to the original 138)
We will get there (some time in the 40s; and by then Dave will come with version D, too. Might not translate to a B'D' but we will see. After all, we are buying capability, not versions).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SKB »


(BAE Systems) 31 Oct 2018
As the F-35 first of class flight trials get underway, we speak with the people who have been central to making this piece of aviation and naval history on-board HMS Queen Elizabeth.


Thread name changed.

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 7245
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Lord Jim wrote:So that is a minimum of £2Bn difference at those prices. Not exactly chicken feed though I know things are never this simple.
Probably cost that much to add boom refueling to the tankers.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

But at least then we could also refuel our P-7s, P-8s, EC-135s and C-17s, and also friendly USAF planes using contactless payment on the go :D

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 7245
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

I'll step aside and let you renegotiate the tanker PFI to allow that :D

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

Something that should have been done to the core fleet of voyager from the beginning, but renegotiating the Tanker PFI should be undertaken with great trepidation. Mind you everyone likes to make more money and Airbus would be keen to do the work, I mean the RAF operating a boom and drogue MRTT is good for their business. And the RAF gains additional flexibility and capability. If I was confident in the MoD commercial abilities I would push for it but then again.

Post Reply