Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
164
52%
Kongsberg NSM
78
25%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
44
14%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
21
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 315

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

NickC wrote:Thursday Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson hosted Australian counterpart Ms Marise Payne at the Govan shipyard building the Type 26, and talked of the renaissance in British shipbuilding.

BAE Systems Chief Executive Charles Woodburn said 80+% of the total equipment spend has now be committed, more than £1 billion (£333+M per ship), to the supply chain, and more than 80 companies have secured contracts to supply material for the first three ships. Sixty-four of those companies are based across the United Kingdom, supporting more than 4000 jobs.

PS What was not mentioned was the majority of equipment is foreign sourced e.g. Only yesterday announced that BAE placed the contract for the composite mast and SCOT sponson structures with the Norwegian company Umoe Mandal.
If 80 companies have secured contracts, and 64 of those are based in the UK, even supposing some of them are foreign owned they still support UK jobs. So I see no problem.

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

jonas wrote:If 80 companies have secured contracts, and 64 of those are based in the UK, even supposing some of them are foreign owned they still support UK jobs. So I see no problem.
Its smoke and mirrors, you have to understand MOD/RN double speak e.g. Raytheon Anschutz, Keil, Germany are supplying the multi-million Integrated Navigation and Bridge System for the Type 26, MOD placed contract placed with Raytheon Anschutz UK Office, sales and marketing, with maybe half a dozen employees, all the work will carried out in Germany, but MOD classifies it as a UK company :)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

NickC wrote:MOD placed contract placed with Raytheon Anschutz UK Office, sales and marketing, with maybe half a dozen employees, all the work will carried out in Germany, but MOD classifies it as a UK company :)
Heh-heh, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I mean: "news" believed by some folks, but not all.

However, the German super-Fregatte has almost gone Kiel-up, from what I understand, and therefore it is high time that they buy some of ours (in exchange for FrankFort being made the financial capital of Europe, taking London's place).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Enigmatically
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Enigmatically »

NickC wrote:
jonas wrote:If 80 companies have secured contracts, and 64 of those are based in the UK, even supposing some of them are foreign owned they still support UK jobs. So I see no problem.
Its smoke and mirrors, you have to understand MOD/RN double speak e.g. Raytheon Anschutz, Keil, Germany are supplying the multi-million Integrated Navigation and Bridge System for the Type 26, MOD placed contract placed with Raytheon Anschutz UK Office, sales and marketing, with maybe half a dozen employees, all the work will carried out in Germany, but MOD classifies it as a UK company :)
Why do you claim they are counting it as a UK company.

I'm not convinced. Any evidence that that is being counted as a UK contract?

Firstly the press release was from BAE not MOD or RN. Which is logical given that it is BAE letting the contracts.
Secondly BAE list Raytheon Anschutz as a german company on their website for the VSS contract (see link below), so I don't see why they would claim it differently for the Nav system

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/f ... act-awards

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

NickC wrote:What was not mentioned was the majority of equipment is foreign sourced
Flat wrong.

Aethulwulf
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Aethulwulf »

Some more details about the final bids for the Canadian frigate competition...

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national ... own-begins

Winner to be selected by the end of the year.

It states that the Spanish F-105 Anti-Submarine Warfare ship will incorporate Saab’s 9LV Combat Management Systems; I think this is the first time this has been confirmed.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Aethulwulf wrote: the Spanish F-105 Anti-Submarine Warfare ship will incorporate Saab’s 9LV Combat Management Systems; I think this is the first time this has been confirmed.
The LM Canada offering is a combo of the above (indeed, it was the first incarnation in which the 9LV was fielded) with their own. And this is not the only time they are going head-to-head: both are still in the running for the Finnish corvette prgrm,too.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

sunstersun
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by sunstersun »

c'mon Canada, join the family of Type 26's.

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Halidon
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Halidon »

Hope we get a decent amount of information on these bids, comparable to Australia's competition. Would like to see the LM/T26 team's approach to an AAW-biased variant.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Halidon wrote:Would like to see the LM/T26 team's approach to an AAW-biased variant.
Yep!
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Enigmatically wrote:
NickC wrote:
jonas wrote:If 80 companies have secured contracts, and 64 of those are based in the UK, even supposing some of them are foreign owned they still support UK jobs. So I see no problem.
Its smoke and mirrors, you have to understand MOD/RN double speak e.g. Raytheon Anschutz, Keil, Germany are supplying the multi-million Integrated Navigation and Bridge System for the Type 26, MOD placed contract placed with Raytheon Anschutz UK Office, sales and marketing, with maybe half a dozen employees, all the work will carried out in Germany, but MOD classifies it as a UK company :)
Why do you claim they are counting it as a UK company.

I'm not convinced. Any evidence that that is being counted as a UK contract?

Firstly the press release was from BAE not MOD or RN. Which is logical given that it is BAE letting the contracts.
Secondly BAE list Raytheon Anschutz as a german company on their website for the VSS contract (see link below), so I don't see why they would claim it differently for the Nav system

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/f ... act-awards
What I remember was a photocopy on web of an MOD Parliamentary answer, not BAE, referring to Raytheon Anschutz as UK content more than a year or so ago, thought had saved but unable to find, so apologies. Querying google did find the following answer to question to what steps the Secretary of State for Defence is taking to maximise the role that UK suppliers can play in the development of the Type 26 programme.

MOD claimed BAE have placed sub-contracts for "Design Development Agreements" with six UK companies, Cathelco; L3; Marine Systems Technology, ; RR - Steering Gear + Stabilisers; Salt Separations & Tyco Fire & Integrated Solutions. What does this mean, checked out one of them, the L3 MAPPS IPMS, Integrated Platform Management System, was developed back in the '80's by CAE Montreal, bought by L3 in 2005 , continuously developed and been a success and fitted to 200 navy ships worldwide. Now if you did not know that from the answer you would be forgiven for thinking it would contain a high design UK percentage content. I'm assuming the L3 UK company have liaison engineers fine tuning IPMS for the Type 26, but the design, hardware and software will be Canadian, as for the other contractors do not know, but it might be the same.

Think the O in MOD may stand for obscurification, you need to be able to follow the money, in US military contracts they have to specify percentage wise where money is spent by city / state / foreign country - transparency, would be informative on the sub-contracts. It is said state claws back 40+% in taxes for very £ spent and Oxford Economics claims that the UK defence industry has an output multiplier of 2.3, meaning that £100M in UK industry generates some £230 million to the UK economy. It was noticeable that the recent US State authorisation to buy the Raytheon AIM-120 missiles by Denmark and UK, Denmark is insisting on minimum offset buy before it will place contract, UK is making no such stipulation on possible buy of $650M.

Thanks for BAE link.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... 0-22/13124

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Don't fall off that bike back pedaling :D

Aethulwulf
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Aethulwulf »

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... ogram.html

German Naval Yards Kiel & TKMS Team Up for MKS 180 program

Early this year, suffering from allegations of bribery and cost overruns on several naval orders, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), had been eliminated by the German Federal MOD from their future MKS-180 warship competition.

It appears TKMS are back in the running, but only as a sub-contractor.

German Naval Yards had teamed with BAE and were believed to be offering a design based on the T26. I'm not sure if this is still the case.

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Doubt. They would go for british variant. T26 design ,more in keeping in eu community To go for a french/ italian designs or variation there of esp with eu unity with brexit and all and trying to set up common defence programs

ViscountViktor
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ViscountViktor »

Will the Type 26s have anti-submarine torpedos?

Simon82
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Simon82 »

ViscountViktor wrote:
Will the Type 26s have anti-submarine torpedos?
No torpedo tubes for Stingray, but the Mk-41 will take ASROC, which would give a much greater radius of action and also an offensive alternative if the ship’s Merlin is unavailable. Of course just because it can take ASROC doesn’t mean the government will purchase any.

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

Does anyone know if the T26 will have to suffer those bloody horrible looking 'mushrooms' fitted for sea-ceptor.

dmereifield
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

Gavin Williamson announces that the 4th T26 is to be named HMS Birmingham at the Conservative Party Conference, at Brimingham, today...

SDL
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SDL »

arfah wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Gavin Williamson announces that the 4th T26 is to be named HMS Birmingham at the Conservative Party Conference, at Brimingham, today...
I’m sure I read that the City class would also be named after locations with a relevance to the 1939-45 Battle of the Atlantic?

Not sure how Birmingham fits?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birmingham_(C19)

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SKB
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SKB »



1. HMS Glasgow
2. HMS Cardiff
3. HMS Belfast
4. HMS Birmingham
5. HMS ?
6. HMS ?
7. HMS ?
8. HMS ?

One each from the four home nations so far. Same for ships 5-8 too?

easton
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by easton »

Strange that the name of the fourth Type 26 frigate is revealed as HMS Birmingham just as the Conservative Party conference begins at Birmingham. Am I being too cynical?

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

easton wrote:Strange that the name of the fourth Type 26 frigate is revealed as HMS Birmingham just as the Conservative Party conference begins at Birmingham. Am I being too cynical?
Not necessarily.

I was trying to remember the last time an RN or RFA vessel was named before it was officially ordered.

SW1
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

London has to get in there somewhere! Naming ships makes it harder to reduce numbers!

benny14
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by benny14 »

jonas wrote:Does anyone know if the T26 will have to suffer those bloody horrible looking 'mushrooms' fitted for sea-ceptor.
The Type 26 has mushrooms.
arfah wrote: Not sure how Birmingham fits?
Edinburgh and London will be the next two. The last two will be English cities.

dmereifield
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

SKB wrote:

1. HMS Glasgow
2. HMS Cardiff
3. HMS Belfast
4. HMS Birmingham
5. HMS ?
6. HMS ?
7. HMS ?
8. HMS ?

One each from the four home nations so far. Same for ships 5-8 too?
I'd bet on one more Scottish City, and three more English (or maybe 2 more English and one Welsh)

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