F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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seaspear
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by seaspear »

sunstersun wrote:Also, an excerpt from the latest Israeli F-35 front.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/middle- ... 018/06/09/

"According to the newspaper’s investigation, the IAF F-35 “Adir” planes penetrated Iran’s airspace, circled high above Tehran, Karajrak, Isfahan, Shiraz and Bandar Abbas – and photographed Iran’s air defense system.

One of the sources reported that Iran’s air defense system, including its Russian radar, did not detect the entry and exit of the fighter planes, and that Ismaili hid this information from the supreme leader to cover his corps’ failure. However, three weeks ago, Iranian intelligence discovered that the Israeli fighter jets had carried out this sortie as a test of the possibility of an undetected military attack on Iranian outposts and bases, during which they photographed those sensitive bases, evading the Russian S-300 missile system’s radar.

According to Al Jarida, Iranian intelligence received top secret information that the Israeli fighter planes even managed to photograph Iran’s underground bases. Khamenei, who received this information, now suspects a cooperation between Russia and Israel, and that the Russians gave Israel the secret code of the Russian radar in Iran – according to the Kuwaiti newspaper."

No punches pulled eh Israel? IOC, then off to scan Iran's air defence systems.


the flying distance from Tel Aviv to Tehran is reported as 985 miles this is rough not knowing the airport it is alleged to have taken off from the f35a has a range of 1200 nmi on internal fuel certainly the I.A.F has the ability through Elbit to look at ways to carry more fuel without altering stealth profile

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

seaspear wrote:certainly the I.A.F has the ability through Elbit to look at ways to carry more fuel without altering stealth profile
Is "certainly" the right word in that; certainly there has been talk about conformals, for a long time, but when you need to make sure that the heads of posidrive (Phillips, for the foreigners) screws are not reflective on radars
... I would like to see a whiff of evidence... just a "whiff"
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whitelancer
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by whitelancer »

Why does this sound more like a disinformation campaign!

How many F35s does Israel have?

R686
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by R686 »

whitelancer wrote:Why does this sound more like a disinformation campaign!

How many F35s does Israel have?
apparently 9+ but not confirmed.

The Israelis are sneaky buggers they go out side the norm. I doubt they have come up with conformal fuel tank id say they used expandable tanks snuck a sneaky ride in on commercial routes and then once clear used their own AAR assets.

Deception in counter air offensive operations is the name of the game

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whitelancer
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

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R686 wrote:apparently 9+ but not confirmed.The Israelis are sneaky buggers they go out side the norm. I doubt they have come up with conformal fuel tank id say they used expandable tanks snuck a sneaky ride in on commercial routes and then once clear used their own AAR assets. Deception in counter air offensive operations is the name of the game
So with 9 or so available they decide to risk one or more swanning about over Iran in order to take a few photos! While I don't doubt they could come up with a way to do so, I do question the purpose. Ask yourself a question if they did do what has been claimed and remained undetected, how come we have heard all about it?

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SKB
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SKB »

Thought this was a UK F-35 thread....?! :eh:

serge750
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by serge750 »

Hugh bragging rights for Israel if they did it through.."if you mess with us we will blow stuff up without you knowing where or when..."

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whitelancer
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by whitelancer »

Same result if you just make people believe you did it.

R686
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by R686 »

whitelancer wrote:
R686 wrote:apparently 9+ but not confirmed. The Israelis are sneaky buggers they go out side the norm. I doubt they have come up with conformal fuel tank id say they used expandable tanks snuck a sneaky ride in on commercial routes and then once clear used their own AAR assets. Deception in counter air offensive operations is the name of the game
So with 9 or so available they decide to risk one or more swanning about over Iran in order to take a few photos! While I don't doubt they could come up with a way to do so, I do question the purpose. Ask yourself a question if they did do what has been claimed and remained undetected, how come we have heard all about it?

I guess we will never really know, thought it was early and a gamble.

The Israel Air Force declared its F-35 fleet operationally capable on December 6, 2017


https://f35.com/news/detail/israel-decl ... at-capable

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Defiance »

whitelancer wrote:Same result if you just make people believe you did it.
Indeed, whether you can or can't blow something up isn't the point, so long as the other guy believes you can!

seaspear
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by seaspear »

The National Interest may 25 th article by Sebastien Robin stated that a subsidiary of Elbit was developing non stealthy 425 gallon feul tanks which with pylons would drop off when approaching areas of hostility , further down the I.A.I developing with Lockeed bolt on stealth conformal tanks as an earlier writer alluded too this is something to be involved in . and something the R.N could use to extend the range of its fighters and not bring its carriers close to shore when launching its fighters

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

seaspear wrote:Elbit was developing non stealthy 425 gallon feul tanks which with pylons would drop off when approaching areas of hostility , further down the I.A.I developing with Lockeed bolt on stealth conformal tanks
Thanks, a story that has been running for a decade and will surely yield fruit... at some point

Now, the other one is that Israel will come out with a two-seater version, to be able to act as a command and coordination a/c for unmanned assets:
- hands up, anyone believing that one
- even if you left all weapons behind, to gain weight margin, the inners of an F-35 are rather tightly arranged (they did fit the rather bulky lift fan, though :) ; the other crew member's ejection seat would have to be modified to "fire" downwards, however :D )
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The real issue driving the "show of force/ capability" that we have been discussing is the number of rockets/ missiles that Iran has been supplying Hezbollah with (and is now standing up within Syria, as well). Despite Israel having layered defences second to none, you can only deal with "so many".

More likely than stealth fighters putting a few precision missiles into the mullahs' living rooms is that these sorts of things will be loaded on Hercs and the likes en-mass, to take out all the known launch sites simultaneously:
"supersonic Rampage is 15.4ft long, has a weight of 1,250 lb. and boasts a warhead, rocket engine and advanced navigation suite which allow precision striking of high-quality, well-protected targets at a distance of 90 miles. It is a derivate of IMI Systems’ ground-launched guided Extended Range Artillery rocket. Minimal changes have been made to the weapon’s external design for its air-launched role. The missile can operate in any weather conditions, both day and night. It offers simplified operation, with no need for a “man in the loop” and can be carried on a broad range of aircraft. For Israel itself, this could be a valuable capability, particularly in light of its low-level fight against Iran and its proxies, including the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, in Syria. Israeli jets carrying Rampage missiles could easily hit targets in and around the Syrian capital Damascus from within Israel’s own airspace."
- low-level fights can turn big with not much warning
- the quote above just dropped in, with the DID of today arriving in my inbox
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by R686 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
seaspear wrote:Elbit was developing non stealthy 425 gallon feul tanks which with pylons would drop off when approaching areas of hostility , further down the I.A.I developing with Lockeed bolt on stealth conformal tanks
Thanks, a story that has been running for a decade and will surely yield fruit... at some point

Now, the other one is that Israel will come out with a two-seater version, to be able to act as a command and coordination a/c for unmanned assets:
- hands up, anyone believing that one
- even if you left all weapons behind, to gain weight margin, the inners of an F-35 are rather tightly arranged (they did fit the rather bulky lift fan, though :) ; the other crew member's ejection seat would have to be modified to "fire" downwards, however :D )

wasn't that the F35B/D extended the cockpit into the lift fan mounting area or something someone came up years ago?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

R686 wrote:or something someone came up years ago?
About like that...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

Nah, the D was the long(er) range F-35A with the F-35C wing. The RAF's wet dream.

Or was that the E?

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by R686 »

Ron5 wrote:Nah, the D was the long(er) range F-35A with the F-35C wing. The RAF's wet dream.

Or was that the E?
Sounds like a RAAF F-111C

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

R686 wrote:Sounds like a RAAF F-111C
Exactly
... who ever called the a/c "dave" may have been dreaming

The "D"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

seaspear
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by seaspear »

And there was the debate of the f35 without the b model

sunstersun
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

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SDL
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by SDL »

Good that they caught him... but man, that website is a POS... awful trying to read anything.

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by NickC »

Lockheed have placed order for new DAS for the F-35 to replace the old generation kit on the "5th" generation plane. As yet not developed, though as below claiming twice the performance and five times the reliability, which could be taken as a damming indictment of current DAS used which dates back before 2001 F-35 contract award. It will installed lot 15, that's 2023.

You could make a strong argument that the UK should hold off buying anymore F-35B a/c until its problems sorted, waiting for Block 4 a/c, new computer, radar with SAR slipped from Block 3.6, may be with updated structure strengthened so able to meet its planned 8,000 hours life and with hopefully capability for ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 and Meteor etc.

Otherwise RAF and RN will be forced to maintain different types adding to complexity and more expensive to maintain, complications during heavy maintenance, operating a/c with different capabilities, the decision whether (unlikely) funding available to upgrade older a/c .
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Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

NickC wrote:which could be taken as a damming indictment of current DAS
Srsly?

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by topman »

NickC wrote: Otherwise RAF and RN will be forced to maintain different types adding to complexity and more expensive to maintain, complications during heavy maintenance, operating a/c with different capabilities, the decision whether (unlikely) funding available to upgrade older a/c .
It'll happen, that isn't the question. What is, is how bad will it be and how do we manage the impact of it?

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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Post by sunstersun »

man, the amount of drama over upgrades is insane. I cannot imagine the F-16 program surviving in the modern day environment. You think the F-35 production has been a fiesta. The F-16 was worse

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