Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
By the way, it has been reported the problem is with the ship's propellers. I wonder who made those? Could it be the same company that made the defective GT's?
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Northrup Grumman Marine (originally Westinghouse) is the company which supplies the troublesome intercooler-recuperator used in the Rolls Royce WR-21 GT's used in the T45's.
The Northrup Grumman Marine intercooler-recuperator recovers heat from the Rolls Royce WR-21 GT turbine exhaust and recycles it into the engine, making it more fuel-efficient and reducing the ship’s thermal signature.
Unfortunately the intercooler unit has a major design flaw and causes the GT's to fail occasionally. When this happens, the electrical load on the two Wartsila 2MW diesel generators can become too great and they ‘trip out’, leaving the ship with no source of power or propulsion.
Replacement of the WR-21 GTs is not a practical option. Instead an additional third diesel generator will provide long-term redundancy and assurance that electrical supplies can be maintained in the event of GT failure. Unfortunately, each Type 45 destroyer will have to be dry-docked, large openings cut in the hull and one additional diesel generator slid into place.
Northrup Grumman Marine is a US company.
The Northrup Grumman Marine intercooler-recuperator recovers heat from the Rolls Royce WR-21 GT turbine exhaust and recycles it into the engine, making it more fuel-efficient and reducing the ship’s thermal signature.
Unfortunately the intercooler unit has a major design flaw and causes the GT's to fail occasionally. When this happens, the electrical load on the two Wartsila 2MW diesel generators can become too great and they ‘trip out’, leaving the ship with no source of power or propulsion.
Replacement of the WR-21 GTs is not a practical option. Instead an additional third diesel generator will provide long-term redundancy and assurance that electrical supplies can be maintained in the event of GT failure. Unfortunately, each Type 45 destroyer will have to be dry-docked, large openings cut in the hull and one additional diesel generator slid into place.
Northrup Grumman Marine is a US company.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
There have been claims of this design flaw raised previously ,but not the specifics , certainly the government of the time knew of the risk in the new technology but chose to ignore , did the recent parliamentary enquiry determine if Northrup Grumman was to be held accountable?
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Ron I think you will find pride in our country in the context of many of the members of this forum extends to service at the sharp end (more than I expect you have done). Defending the corporate largesse of the multinational behemoth is best left up to ingratiating proctoscopists such as yourself. Speaking in my new profession I would suggest the brand of Kruuse veterinary obstectric lubricant would be the best choice to go fist yourself.
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Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
All right everyone, that's enough, from all parties involved.
Further posts on this away from Type 45 news unrelated to this targeted arguement will be deleted if they are posted after my post here.
Take it to PM with one another if you want.
Further posts on this away from Type 45 news unrelated to this targeted arguement will be deleted if they are posted after my post here.
Take it to PM with one another if you want.
- shark bait
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Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
This really highlights the RN's availability crisis.
We simply couldn't support the QE in conflict with a fleet in this state, the system needs to be able to tolerate some stress like mechanical failure, but it's stressed far too thin to allow that.
We simply couldn't support the QE in conflict with a fleet in this state, the system needs to be able to tolerate some stress like mechanical failure, but it's stressed far too thin to allow that.
@LandSharkUK
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
shark bait wrote:This really highlights the RN's availability crisis.
We simply couldn't support the QE in conflict with a fleet in this state, the system needs to be able to tolerate some stress like mechanical failure, but it's stressed far too thin to allow that.
To be far if its a grounding of an entire class it doesn't really matter if you have six or fifty ships of that class, but does illustrate for the need for ships able to cover across the maritime spectrum if only to a limited degree.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
@r686
Does this not better illustrate the need not to put all your eggs in one basket. Commonality is often used as a great benefit, and indeed there are great benefits, but most platforms have weaknesses and often these are only found out under the stresses of design limits and war. Having a whole class of destroyers, fleet of helicopters or army rifle put to one side for investigations/ repairs / etc. might be considered dangerous.
In the case of the Daring Class it also illustrates the concept of moving from physical testing of the genset to modelling was done too fast. There should have been a parallel process or no move away from the physical testing.
Does this not better illustrate the need not to put all your eggs in one basket. Commonality is often used as a great benefit, and indeed there are great benefits, but most platforms have weaknesses and often these are only found out under the stresses of design limits and war. Having a whole class of destroyers, fleet of helicopters or army rifle put to one side for investigations/ repairs / etc. might be considered dangerous.
In the case of the Daring Class it also illustrates the concept of moving from physical testing of the genset to modelling was done too fast. There should have been a parallel process or no move away from the physical testing.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
The reported problems with Diamond are with the Rolls Royce provided propellers. Rolls Royce was also responsible for supplying the WR21's.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
According to Janes the problem may be in the Propeller Shaft itself ........
http://www.janes.com/article/75935/uk-t ... ller-fault
http://www.janes.com/article/75935/uk-t ... ller-fault
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Not 100% sure but I think the shafts are also Rolls as on the new carriers.
By the way, not the first time for Type 45 shaft problems.
By the way, not the first time for Type 45 shaft problems.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
HMS Diamond is back... all 6 T45's now in Portsmouth.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
HMS Dragon (D35) arrived in Devonport on Tuesday 20th February 2018.
HMS Diamond (D34) leaving Portsmouth, Thursday 22nd February 2018.
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Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/b ... generation
"BAE Systems, Cammell Laird and BMT team-up to deliver additional Type 45 power generation"
Work set to begin "immediately"
"BAE Systems, Cammell Laird and BMT team-up to deliver additional Type 45 power generation"
Work set to begin "immediately"
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Good news for the RN and excellent news for Merseyside.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
So, it will only be about 15yrs into their service life before they all work as advertised..
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Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
It would be good if they could drop in some Mk41 VLS cells while they are in drydock
- 2HeadsBetter
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Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
"Improvement Project." So not repairs then. Anyone else noticed how industrial sites are now called employment parks. Everything is spin nowadays.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
The following quote from the story says it all really.dmereifield wrote:https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/b ... generation
"BAE Systems, Cammell Laird and BMT team-up to deliver additional Type 45 power generation"
Work set to begin "immediately"
"The BAE Systems-led team competed in and won both lots"
Despite that, this is great news and the light is now at the end of the tunnel. The IEP system in the Type 45 is the state of the art and future generations of power systems based on this technology will keep UK at the forefront of ship design.
Re: Type 45 Destroyer (Daring Class) (RN) [News Only]
Are the improvements expected to generate surplus power that can be stored