Fantasy T31 and Fantasy Fleet Builder [New]

[R686]

Who said this fleet was centred on blood Europe you blood asked how it would work in Europe numb nuts this fleet could work anywhere in the world and it would have to.

Well no, it's was intended as a bit of lite banter intermingled with all the seriousness of a fantasy thread

[Defiance]

I think this is significant. For example we may be able to have, within 25 years,
4 SSBN
8 SSN (+1 unit cost= 1.5bn, 1.1bn left)
2 CV (1.65bn left)
6 T45 (1.65bn left)
9 T26 (+1 unit cost= 0.75bn, 1.25bn left)
5 River B2 (0.15bn left)

When you tell the lads at Barrow they need to fit an 8th boat in before Dreadnought, I want to be there to see the reaction!

[ArmChairCivvy]

a force that can conquer and divide as well as rape, pillage and burn.

Unfortunately we have since long lost our Viking heritage...

[Tempest414]

The rape bit is out of the question and the conquer and pillage part is at back of our minds but the divide and burn part is very much alive and kicking with in the UK forces

[Lord Jim]

But don't forget the health, safety and well being staff that must accompany all troops these days. Having to ask permission from the person you intend to shoot to make sure he or she won't be offended or take legal action if only wounded is very important these days.

[donald_of_tokyo]

I think this is significant. For example we may be able to have, within 25 years,
4 SSBN
8 SSN (+1 unit cost= 1.5bn, 1.1bn left)
2 CV (1.65bn left)
6 T45 (1.65bn left)
9 T26 (+1 unit cost= 0.75bn, 1.25bn left)
5 River B2 (0.15bn left)

When you tell the lads at Barrow they need to fit an 8th boat in before Dreadnought, I want to be there to see the reaction!

Thanks. But it will happen "within 25 years" = 1 ship life cycle , so I think we will just see the 8th boat to come after the Dreadnoughts.

[Defiance]

Thanks. But it will happen "within 25 years" = 1 ship life cycle , so I think we will just see the 8th boat to come after the Dreadnoughts.

That boat wouldn't be anything like the rest of the A-boats. She'll be replacing Astute 100%.

Then again i'm a bit of a grump when it comes to fantasy fleet, there's "fantasty fleet" dealing with 'what-ifs' based on the current situation (as you tend to describe) then there's pure fiction.

[Caribbean]

That boat wouldn't be anything like the rest of the A-boats. She'll be replacing Astute 100%

Agreed - I think that we will be looking to the end of the next building cycle to increase SSN numbers. Hopefully we won't then run into the same issues as were encountered with the Astutes and the re-starting of submarine design and building in the UK, so hopefully we will get 8 or more

[90inFIRST]

We don't have any SSK's

[Caribbean]

We don't have any SSK's

Typo - thanks - corrected

[Rambo]

The only way we could get an 8th Astute is if the Dreadnoughts were scaled back from 4 to 3. But i am unsure how the CASD could operate with only 3.
I see in Parliament today it wasnt confirmed whether the 7th boat had even been funded yet which sounds worrying. Surely the 7th boat is already in early stages of build?

[Tempest414]

As this is a Fantasy thread and we are talking about the new SSBN's I would like some old names to return such as

HMS Hood
HMS King George VI
HMS Nelson
HMS Howe

[Lord Jim]

I would go;

HMS Dreadnought
HMS Warspite
HMS Barham
HMS Lion

[shark bait]

Thanks. But it will happen "within 25 years" = 1 ship life cycle , so I think we will just see the 8th boat to come after the Dreadnoughts.

There may be a slight problem here; HMS Astute is due out of service before Dreadnought 4 hits the the water. At that rate there will be a drop down to 6 boats for a while, and a long time before the RN make it to 8 boats.

Astute either needs an easy life, or a new core to avoid this clash..... if only we built our subs with a refueling hatch.....

Also Dreadnought 2 surely had to be HMS Warspite

[Lord Jim]

Wasn't one of the key design issues the fact that the reactor used on the Astutes and also the Vanguards meant to be for the life of the vessel so no need for costly refuelings. Great idea I suppose but as pointed out does sort of prevent any life extension programme.

[Tempest414]

Here lies the problem of HMG playground mentality and playing for votes. As said time and a gain a long lead plan is needed if we are going to build boats with a max life 25 year then we need to build there replacements in sequence this is not hard 12 boats over 25 years = 1 boat every 25 months

[donald_of_tokyo]

Thanks. But it will happen "within 25 years" = 1 ship life cycle , so I think we will just see the 8th boat to come after the Dreadnoughts.

There may be a slight problem here; HMS Astute is due out of service before Dreadnought 4 hits the the water. At that rate there will be a drop down to 6 boats for a while, and a long time before the RN make it to 8 boats.

Astute either needs an easy life, or a new core to avoid this clash..... if only we built our subs with a refueling hatch.....

Also Dreadnought 2 surely had to be HMS Warspite

Not sure. Radio active material has some "life". But, it does NOT suddenly black out, but it will decay, to my understanding. There may be a possibility that, if we accept "a bit slower speed", we can use it for another 4-5- years?

[Tempest414]

Or build the SSBN's quicker and then settle into a 25 year program

[ArmChairCivvy]

as pointed out does sort of prevent any life extension programme.

Does not seem to have as re-coring is rife, the additional work has put the single reactor line 52 months behind (and a switch-over to the new type will also need work, between the reactor cores)
- so the only sensible reason for cutting the 7th Astute would be to get the the Dreadnoughts quicker - and thereby cut this vicious re-coring cycle.

[Tempest414]

if this is the case then maybe the UK should cut the 7th Astute and move to the SSBN's and to cover the gap until the new SSN's come into service take the 1.6 billion and buy 3 type 214 SSK's and a extra type 31

[dmereifield]

Does anyone know the status of the build for boat 7, how far along is it? What (expensive) long lead items have been purchased? What large contracts have been signed? Surely dropping it now would entail large financial penalties.
Considering the current argument being that the Russians submarine fleet are more active, and this being a central plank of the request for additional funds, cutting boat 7 would seem highly counter productive....

However, it it were to happen, how much funding would be saved from the Astute programme, and where could that be put to best use to improve our overall ASW capabilities/capacity (to at least partially mitigate the loss of boat 7)?

[Opinion3]

For those of us that doubt seven Astutes represent a big enough fleet and worry about the build schedules of the Dreadnoughts, Astutes and their replacements this indicates that the build timetables need to be gently sped up. Extra resources and/or investment to remove the bottlenecks would not be a short term fix, this is fixing a long term problem and one that can be foreseen in the medium term at this stage.

[Repulse]

A question for the weekend, if the RN had the 5 primary roles what balance / type of ships would be optimal:

1) Defence of UK / BOT territorial waters.
2) CASD
3) Sea Contol (with allies) of the North Sea and North Atlantic
3) Patrolling of SLOCs and Choke Points to UK trade (with allies)
4) Global Strike / Maritime Expeditionary Ops (limited independent ops and large joint ops with allies)

For me, any Defence Modernisation Review needs to address this for the navy (with priorities).

[ArmChairCivvy]

1) Defence of UK / BOT territorial waters.
2) CASD
3) Sea Contol (with allies) of the North Sea and North Atlantic

Does 1) not come compliments of 3)?

Whereas Sea Denial (outside that mentioned zone) does not enter your list at all?
- it may have been a WW2 vintage heavy torp that sent the Belgrano to the bottom (and the rest of that navy hurriedly to their home port)
- but just having such a capability (which is useful for many other purposes on the list, too) is a great deterrent

[Tempest414]

I have to say I am still happy with my last Fleet of

4 x SSBN
8 x SSN
6 x SSK ( this is a change from the last fleet and they would mainly work in the North sea and Med) in the area denial role
2 x Carriers
1 x Canberra class LHD
6 x Type 45
10 x Type 26
10 x Type 31 (Arrowhead 120)
20 x Batch 2 River class ( with 10 x portable MCM kits and armed with 57mm main gun and 2x 50 cal HMG)

RFA

5 Tide class
4 fleet replenishment ships
1 x Argus or a replacement
4 Bay class
4 Point class